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[Jensonb]

wheres Alonso's 6 tenths to Renault? what a crock that slant is, and it started from Alonso himself.

As I recall, he said he gave Mclaren 6 tenths. He's never mentioned how much his given Renault

thats what im saying, where is Alonso's superior car knowledge in helping Renault?

Look at Piquet and you'll see.

It's just McLaren were better at distributing the advancements to both cars.

[bud]

haha you guys actually believed Alosno's sour puss comments he made last year? they are nothing more than a dig at the team and are disrespectful to the rest of the teams hard work.

look at Piquet Vs Alonso well that has nothing to do with car setup as im sure Fernando isnt playing hide and seek again this year at Renault. its all about driver skill and maybe every Lewis detractor might appreciate how well Lewis drove last year against Fernando from the very first race of the year with Piquet as a basis. both Rookies against Fernando and Nelson has not been conisistent at all.

and if you think Alonso has 6 tenths on Piquet go look at the lap classifications on Bahrain.

[umair_theheadliner]

alonso cant prove himself at renault.. renault need another 3 or 4 years to have a top car

[EwanM]

wheres Alonso's 6 tenths to Renault? what a crock that slant is, and it started from Alonso himself.

As I recall, he said he gave Mclaren 6 tenths. He's never mentioned how much his given Renault

thats what im saying, where is Alonso's superior car knowledge in helping Renault?

Alonso really is driving that car into position it shouldn't be, if you look at where Piquet usual is compared to him over a race.
Also I think Renault have alot more problems than the 06 Mclaren had for Alonso and co to fix... it'll take time.

[f1ea]

thats what im saying, where is Alonso's superior car knowledge in helping Renault?

Like I said, Alonso has never mentioned helping Renault. But anyway, Alonso has scored points and has been able to outperform better cars and if it even counts beat Lewis on the track with a much lesser car; if they had only Piquet they wouldnt be able to tell what they could be hoping for and therefore in which direction to improve. And this kind of input is probably what Mclaren seems to be missing now and BMW / Ferrari have capitalised.

Because to be honest, i don't really know where does Mclaren stand right now. Maybe because their drivers haven't been able to show the 'full' potential of the car (and in the only race they showed form Ferrari was absent). For example, Renault can say where they are with a lot more accuracy, which they wouldn't be able to do if they had only Piquet. More or less the same goes to Toyota, Force India and even Ferrari; because despite his mistakes, Massa has been able to show the true pace of the F2008, even when that pace is not enough to win (Melbourne) at least you can pinpoint them in the grid more accurately.

That's what I think... Does it make sense?

[bud]

to summarise the Fernando Alonso engineer of the year brigade

Lewis, Heikki, Nelson = crap
Fernando = great

McLarens pace last 2 gp is down to crap setup by crap drivers and not car characteristics

has been able to outperform better cars and if it even counts beat Lewis on the track with a much lesser car

beat lewis on the track? only driver i have seen outperforming his car is Fisichella

[Denthúl]

to summarise the Fernando Alonso engineer of the year brigade

Lewis, Heikki, Nelson = crap
Fernando = great

McLarens pace last 2 gp is down to crap setup by crap drivers and not car characteristics

has been able to outperform better cars and if it even counts beat Lewis on the track with a much lesser car

beat lewis on the track? only driver i have seen outperforming his car is Fisichella

That's not true. Vettel has done it in qualifying.

Anyway, Bud, McLaren's pace probably wasn't so much down to a bad setup. Heikki set the fastest lap of the race once he was on the right tyres. The McLaren's problem is that it wears its tyres more. And Tilke tracks seemed to favour the Ferrari cars last year as well. I think that Barcelona will be the first proper indication of how the Ferrari, BMW Sauber and McLaren cars truly compare, since it's the kind of track that all cars should be good on.

[texasmr2]

I think that Barcelona will be the first proper indication of how the Ferrari, BMW Sauber and McLaren cars truly compare, since it's the kind of track that all cars should be good on.

That was another statement by Varsha that Barcelona will be the track were we will see everyone's true color's.

[f1ea]

beat lewis on the track? only driver i have seen outperforming his car is Fisichella

Yeah beat him. Didn't you see his nose after they were finished?
Fisi was truly amazing. But he's not the only driver to have 'outperformed'. Trulli too, and even Bourdais in Melbourne...

I'm not saying Mclaren, Lewis, Heikki or Piquet are crap... But here's a stir :

1) where are Lewis' superior passing skills?? he couldn't nail Jarno, made Fisi look really good and broke his nose with Alonso.
2) Massa makes a mistake (or two ) and the world questions his seat. Lewis makes mistakes: and the team blame themselves.

Just because I'm not praising Mclaren or Lewis doesnt mean I think Alonso is a saviour. But not everything is always cristal clear so some bit of subjective realism helps

[texasmr2]

But not everything is always cristal clear so some bit of subjective realism helps

Dang this statement should be in the header for the forum, very very well put, I salute you sir!!!

[7UpJordan]

I think that Barcelona will be the first proper indication of how the Ferrari, BMW Sauber and McLaren cars truly compare, since it's the kind of track that all cars should be good on.

That was another statement by Varsha that Barcelona will be the track were we will see everyone's true color's.

Indeed, I think at this track Williams' true colours will shine through as well, it seems both McLaren and Williams' cars don't like the crappy Tilke tracks whereas Toyota's love them (hardly surprising, boring track design, boring car... ). But Nakajima needs to step up his qualifying pace big time.

[nikon133]

Alonso did bring 6 tenths to the team and now they have 2 rookie drivers they are losing out to the Ferrari with the knowledge of Michael Schumacher to test the car. That is why Kimi is going to win the title!

wheres Alonso's 6 tenths to Renault? what a crock that slant is, and it started from Alonso himself.

No matter how god he might be in bringing the best out of the car, he still needs good car with potential to bring out. You can't bring out premium results from mediocre car...

[nikon133]

beat lewis on the track? only driver i have seen outperforming his car is Fisichella

Yeah beat him. Didn't you see his nose after they were finished?
Fisi was truly amazing. But he's not the only driver to have 'outperformed'. Trulli too, and even Bourdais in Melbourne...

I'm not saying Mclaren, Lewis, Heikki or Piquet are crap... But here's a stir :

1) where are Lewis' superior passing skills?? he couldn't nail Jarno, made Fisi look really good and broke his nose with Alonso.
2) Massa makes a mistake (or two ) and the world questions his seat. Lewis makes mistakes: and the team blame themselves.

Just because I'm not praising Mclaren or Lewis doesnt mean I think Alonso is a saviour. But not everything is always cristal clear so some bit of subjective realism helps

Completely agree...

[Jensonb]

to summarise the Fernando Alonso engineer of the year brigade

Lewis, Heikki, Nelson = crap
Fernando = great

No Bud, that's not what anyone is saying. You're just annoyed that it comes across as a criticism of McLaren, which it isn't necessarily. It's an analysis of the results of what many people thought were good decisions at the time. We're not saying Lewis, heikki or Nelson are crap, we're saying they are inexperienced which is detrimental to their race craft and dvelopment relative to more experienced drivers like Alonso who is part of the equation not because we feel he is he best, but because it is he that McLaren lost.

[bud]

you know where was this talk in Australia when the car was on song?

its easy to jump to this conclusion that Alonso's some demigod engineer slash driver that the media always bring up.
But these guys have been setting up cars/karts all their life they have an understanding from a drivers point of view what needs to be done. Obviously an F1 will be different to setup than the previous class but so whas that class to its previous class and so on. and guess what there is a shitload of engineers paid to setup up the car with the drivers! and im sorry to say the engineers do most of the setup work

Like i have said and Denthul quoted earlier Heikki getting fastest lap would suggest the car is quick when its problems were ironed out by a rubbered track. Their problem was lack of traction out of corners which is caused by a. rear suspension issues and b.longer wheel base they have now.
C. not driver setup

1) where are Lewis' superior passing skills?? he couldn't nail Jarno, made Fisi look really good and broke his nose with Alonso.
2) Massa makes a mistake (or two ) and the world questions his seat. Lewis makes mistakes: and the team blame themselves.

Just because I'm not praising Mclaren or Lewis doesnt mean I think Alonso is a saviour. But not everything is always cristal clear so some bit of subjective realism helps

youre talking about a bloke on a heavy fuel load after his crash with Alonso and a bloke who had a damaged car and youre taking a swipe at him for having issues with passing slower cars?
you should try your subjective realism sometime but then youd have to take back that comment