FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[myownalias]

Some people have an agenda that involves bitching and moaning about the teams other members favour instead of accepting that we don't all have to be of one mind.

But that is the nature of Internet forums in general, which is part of the reason I have withdrawn from posting on forums in general; for the most partl.

[racechick]

If we were all of the same mind, or chose not to speak our mind if we differed,what a boring place we'd find ourselves in.

[racechick]

So when are you guys going to get over that after the 3 years together that 22 "Rubber Ducky" beat 44 "Droopy Drawers" on points. At the end of the day points win championships and not wins or fastest laps.

pssst... They've obviously not noticed that your """metric unit""" was their partnership together at McLaren, eh?

Mind you, another """metric unit""" we can use is their respective WDC seasons!
And, much as I hate statistics, I gave up what little free time I had this evening
and garnered the following interesting fact about that particular """metric""" unit:

In 2008, Hamilton had 5 wins (27% of races), two 2nd places (11% of races), and three 3rd place (16% of races) finishes for a total of 10 (56% of races) podiums.
He had 1 retirement in 18 races. He won his championship by a single point.

In 2009, Button had 6 wins (35% of races), one 2nd places (12% of races), and two 3rd place (12% of races)finishes, for a total of 11 podiums (65% of races).
He had 1 retirement in 17 races. He won his championship by 11 points.

And? What's that supposed to prove? They were in different teams, different cars, different teammates.

[CookinFlat6]

Top 10 Formula 1 earners of 2014:

1. Fernando Alonso – Ferrari – €20 million ($27.14 million) (plus limited endorsments)
& Lewis Hamilton – Mercedes – €20 million ($27.14 million) (plus unlimited endorsements)
3. Jenson Button – McLaren – €16 million ($21.71 million) (all endorsments part of McLaren deal)

Another statistic that points to who will get paid what assuming they get a drive in 2015 is this;

Autosport Team Principals' (decision makers, not steak dinnered gutter press) Top 10 drivers rankings

4 Lewis Hamilton 117

9 Jenson Button 24

One driver is just about to be retired by a rookie and the other driver is established in the best seat for the next few years

They are in different leagues - its a clear mismatch

[CookinFlat6]

Some people have an agenda that involves bitching and moaning about the teams other members favour instead of accepting that we don't all have to be of one mind.

Thats the whole idea of a forum, to voice strong opinions about teams, drivers and the sport in general. what is not acceptable to to bitch and moan about other members

Looking back in time to the original forums, representatives would turn up to shout their opinions. They didnt travel from the corner of the empire to say 'everything is good, I love my life, I love my wife, I love the taxes and I love the new decrees thrust upon us'

nope they turned up to COMPLAIN about taxes, and unfair decrees and generally to moan about the governace

In London there is an open air forum called speakers corner. anyone can turn up to say what they want. No one turns up to say 'I love Ferrari and alonso' nope people turn up to MOAN about things they feel strongly about

Only an idiot would turn up at speakers corner and moan about the moaners moaning

[sagi58]

And? What's that supposed to prove? They were in different teams, different cars, different teammates.

I know that, RC! Wasn't trying to be negative towards Hamilton, just trying to show that statistics can and will be manipulated to suit whatever argument one is making.
By using their respective championship years where, presumably both were on their game in the best car on the grid at the time, I made a "comparison"!
Simple as that. No harm, no foul!

[sagi58]

Some people have an agenda that involves bitching and moaning about the teams other members favour instead of accepting that we don't all have to be of one mind.

Thats the whole idea of a forum, to voice strong opinions about teams, drivers and the sport in general. what is not acceptable to to bitch and moan about other members...

It would seem we agree, for once, eh? However, let me add:

Open forums are also about respect for other members!

We do NOT have to agree with all the lovely rosy poetry posted about one driver,
any more than we have to agree with all the denigrating venom posted about another.

We should be respectful of the rights of other members and not moan about their views
nor should it be acceptable to badger, cajole, and turn to Chinese water torture in order
to convince them it's "my way or the highway".

[racechick]

And? What's that supposed to prove? They were in different teams, different cars, different teammates.

I know that, RC! Wasn't trying to be negative towards Hamilton, just trying to show that statistics can and will be manipulated to suit whatever argument one is making.
By using their respective championship years where, presumably both were on their game in the best car on the grid at the time, I made a "comparison"!
Simple as that. No harm, no foul!

It's ok Sagi, not worried about what you said, I just don't think the comparison stands up. One in a rocket ship with a double diffuser that it took the other teams half a season to copy. The other in ONE of the faster cars.
You are right, statistics can be manipulated to suit your viewpoint, but however it's twisted, I just don't think that comparison is valid.

[sagi58]

...In London there is an open air forum called speakers corner. anyone can turn up to say what they want. No one turns up to say 'I love Ferrari and alonso' nope people turn up to MOAN about things they feel strongly about

Only an idiot would turn up at speakers corner and moan about the moaners moaning :thumbup :

I appreciate the explanation; but, I do know what a Speaker's Corner is, as we have one right here, too!!
Do I bother listening to the "highlights" when they are televised? Nope!
Why? Because it's obvious that they are going to say whatever negative/controversial words of ""wisdom""
in order to get their few minutes of glory on the air.

By the way, thanks for the Ferrari plug, I knew you were a closet fan!!

[sagi58]

You are right, statistics can be manipulated to suit your viewpoint, but however it's twisted, I just don't think that comparison is valid.

Totally agree with you!

[CookinFlat6]

Open forums are also about respect for other members!

We do NOT have to agree with all the lovely rosy poetry posted about one driver,
any more than we have to agree with all the denigrating venom posted about another.

We should be respectful of the rights of other members and not moan about their views
nor should it be acceptable to badger, cajole, and turn to Chinese water torture in order
to convince them it's "my way or the highway".

That's the difference. A member can post his opinions about a driver or team. If another member does not agree they can challenge it or if they have no basis for a challenge beyond 'this is what I think' then they should stfu
If you post something I find negative but is true about my faveourite driver I would never ever challenge it, or deny you the right to voice your opinion.
What you do is when someone says something factual but negative about your team is to jump in with ill formed counter arguments that are easily countered. You then change the argument to become a general defence of the team then end up trying to discredit the right of the original poster to have a negative opinion. Then you apologise for getting some facts wrong, then finally you admit you are a biased and loyal team supporter who is obliged to defend them all the time
Then when you are really on form you accuse others of being biased towards a particular team or driver. Then for good measure tell us it's not all black and white

It is endearing in parts though

[1Lemon]

Ad hoc opinion poll. Will Jenson keep his beard in 2014? *futile attempt to re rail topic*

[racechick]

what's Boulier think of beards??

I don't like his beard, so I hope it goes, it's too straggly. Too long for the masculine stubble look, it's sort of wispy.

[What's Burning?]

Who knows, these guys are into ducks and beards. Maybe it's trending?

[CookinFlat6]

Thats a disturbing trend