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[sagi58]

Let's get this straight...

We're to accept that Hamilton ""beat"" Alonso, in 2007, because he got "one" more second place podium/"one" less third place podium (same number of podiums).
Yet, we are also to accept that Kimi ""stole"" the WDC from Hamilton, that year, in spite of having TWO more wins (same number of podiums) AND double the DNFs!!
Go figure, eh?

[CookinFlat6]

Let's get this straight...

We're to accept that Hamilton ""beat"" Alonso, in 2007, because he got "one" more second place podium/"one" less third place podium (same number of podiums).
Yet, we are also to accept that Kimi ""stole"" the WDC from Hamilton, that year, in spite of having TWO more wins (same number of podiums) AND double the DNFs!!
Go figure, eh?

But Sagi58, the FIA confirm that Lewis beat Alonso to second place in his rookie year. We accept the FIA rules right?
Kimi won the 2007 WDC, its says nothing about stealing, it also says nothing about mysterious gearbox failures in the last race
Who is asking anyone to accept anything other than the FIA official results? You introduced Kimi to this Alonso discussion

[racechick]

:grin::grin:

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[racechick]

Er...im on the tspatslj and hav no idea what im replying to.:lol:

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[spankyham]

Makes me laugh every time I read people posting so desperate and determined to split hairs on the 2007 McLaren season. Blind Freddy can see how good these two drivers are and they proved it with the points they ended up with in 2007.

I do however smile each time this topic comes up, because all I think is that that McLaren would have won the title that year if it was run like Ferrari.

[spankyham]

.... the only time they had a "head to head" was in equal machinery in 2007 and Alonso lost. End.

Thanks for that Hammer, you raise an excellent point in my mind, not only has Fernando beaten Lewis every year since joining Ferrari, last year he did it in a car significantly inferior to the Merc

[sagi58]

But Sagi58, the FIA confirm that Lewis beat Alonso to second place in his rookie year. We accept the FIA rules right?
Kimi won the 2007 WDC, its says nothing about stealing, it also says nothing about mysterious gearbox failures in the last race
Who is asking anyone to accept anything other than the FIA official results? You introduced Kimi to this Alonso discussion

Obviously the FIA posted Hamilton as being in second place, he had one more "second" place finish than Alonso,
sheez, even I know that!!
I wasn't referring to the FIA and we both know it! Rather, I was responding to your:

...I am sure [Alonso] would not want to argue that he came joint second in 2007 like his fans would,

Unlike "most" Hamilton fans like to want to argue that he was robbed of the WDC that year. Since Kimi won,
the implication is that Kimi "stole" it!

By the way, the FIA official results don't mention the "cool fuel" scandal either, do they?

And, introducing Kimi in this thread is sanctioned merely because he is Alonso's teammate at Ferrari, this year!!

[Hammer278]

.... the only time they had a "head to head" was in equal machinery in 2007 and Alonso lost. End.

Thanks for that Hammer, you raise an excellent point in my mind, not only has Fernando beaten Lewis every year since joining Ferrari, last year he did it in a car significantly inferior to the Merc

Sorry to say I think you misunderstood the main point in my previous post; that 'head to head' only counts in equal machinery, equal treatment and we only had that in 2007. 1 shot for Alonso to beat a rookie, and he blew it. Simple and to the point, no need for any thinking or analysis.

Sagi, no one's saying Hamilton got the WDC stolen in 2007, Kimi earned that well and true. Lewis lost the WDC thanks to McLaren's part in mismanagement and having a backstabbing blackmailing teammate who ripped the team apart that year. That doesn't make it Kimi's fault.

[spankyham]

....Lewis lost the WDC thanks to McLaren's part in mismanagement and having a backstabbing blackmailing teammate who ripped the team apart that year. That doesn't make it Kimi's fault.

Harsh words for Ron. Although when he came out publicly saying the McLaren team was not fighting Kimi/Ferrari but rather fighting Nando I knew we had another championship as good as in the bag

[Hammer278]

....Lewis lost the WDC thanks to McLaren's part in mismanagement and having a backstabbing blackmailing teammate who ripped the team apart that year. That doesn't make it Kimi's fault.

Harsh words for Ron. Although when he came out publicly saying the McLaren team was not fighting Kimi/Ferrari but rather fighting Nando I knew we had another championship as good as in the bag

Ron was the boss, not a teammate.

When Alonso threw his team to the dogs when his squeals for No.1 were not being met by Ron (logically speaking, having a rookie as a teammate and being paid tonnes more already sets the expectations without requiring preferential treatment!) the chemistry had changed, and personally I can't blame RD for that.

If I were running a corporation and I had a backstabber in my team, I'm not going to be a fan of his. Bottom line, before the sh*t hit the fan and everything was cuddly fuddly in the team...Hamilton was AHEAD of his 2x WDC teammate in the standings. No matter how you spin it, Alonso was publicly humiliated that year in more ways than 1.

[spankyham]

....Lewis lost the WDC thanks to McLaren's part in mismanagement and having a backstabbing blackmailing boss who ripped the team apart that year. That doesn't make it Kimi's fault.

Harsh words for Ron. Although when he came out publicly saying the McLaren team was not fighting Kimi/Ferrari but rather fighting Nando I knew we had another championship as good as in the bag

Ron was the boss, not a teammate.

No need to be that harsh and pedantic on your wording. I fixed it for you now

[CookinFlat6]

Makes me laugh every time I read people posting so desperate and determined to split hairs on the 2007 McLaren season. Blind Freddy can see how good these two drivers are and they proved it with the points they ended up with in 2007.

The difference between a raw rookie and the reigning 2x WDC is hardly splitting hairs

The rookie beat the 2x WDC from the first corner of the first race and caused the 2x WDC to implde and act in a distinctly non champion manner, resorting to tricks and blackmail, and ultimately losing anyway and fleeing the team

this is not splitting hairs, more like a David and Goliath story with an ugly twist

[spankyham]

The difference between a raw rookie and the reigning 2x WDC is hardly splitting hairs

The difference between two great drivers is one RCH ASAIC. No-one in the history of F1 has had a better rookie season than Lewis, that's all anyone needs to know about how good a driver he was/is and he was bleeding good from the get-go. So IMO you are desperately trying to split hairs.
Ipso facto Nando beating him again this year in a car that was definitely no match the Merc show what a great driver Nando is

.... resorting to tricks and blackmail, and ultimately losing anyway and fleeing the team

I thought we were going to leave Ron's role in 2007 out of this?

[Hammer278]

Clear rose tinted glasses of not being able to see who wrecked the team that year...Ron Dennis wasn't the one who asked for preferential treatment and then squealed and threw the toys out of the pram when he didn't get his wish.

In the eyes of the "Tifosi", "Nando" is an angel that can do no wrong....that's why only his teams have ended up with fines up to 100mill and DSQ, team bosses being banished from the sport (and Mr Angel of course has 'no knowledge of anything'), and even his current team boss has been publicly critical of him on more than 1 occasion. But no, "Nando" is a sweetheart.

Whatever.

Edit

I apologize for talking this way about Alonso in a fan thread, but I consider my involvement so far as a 'titfortat' since the "Tifosi" have freely nagged through the Lewis and Mercedes threads so far....anyway, I made my thoughts clear on "Nando" as a personality but also someone who is a great driver (no problems identifying this fact) and this shall be my last post on the matter. Peace!

[CookinFlat6]

No-one in the history of F1 has had a better rookie season than Lewis, that's all anyone needs to know about how good a driver he was/is and he was bleeding good from the get-go. So IMO you are desperately trying to split hairs.
Ipso facto Nando beating him again this year in a car that was definitely no match the Merc show what a great driver Nando is

The rookie Petrov wasnt as good as Lewis but still managed to scare Alonso off a WDC at Abu Dhabi. The only comparison between drivers is when teammates.

Lewis as a rookie beat Alonso the only year they were teammates. End of