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[spankyham]

He hasn't won much since he was beaten by Lewis in 2007

Thanks for reminding me Cookin - Nando has indeed beaten Lewis every one of his Ferrari years

I don't think he's actually "won" anything though. The only battle for second is in the WCC.

Cookin referred to their head-to-head record - which made me think of their head to head record since Nando came to Ferrari.

Beating Lewis, in two different cars, 4 years in a row is definitely impressive ASAIC because I rate Lewis extremely highly. Personally, I'd have him in a Ferrari ahead of Seb if we had a seat available.

[What's Burning?]

He hasn't won much since he was beaten by Lewis in 2007

Thanks for reminding me Cookin - Nando has indeed beaten Lewis every one of his Ferrari years

I don't think he's actually "won" anything though. The only battle for second is in the WCC.

Cookin referred to their head-to-head record - which made me think of their head to head record since Nando came to Ferrari.

Beating Lewis, in two different cars, 4 years in a row is definitely impressive ASAIC because I rate Lewis extremely highly. Personally, I'd have him in a Ferrari ahead of Seb if we had a seat available.

That's not a head to head record now is it? I'm sure we agree that both of them are the head of the current class, but no one can actually claim to win something until they beat the current champion.

It's my opinion that both Lewis and Alonso would have take one of Vettel's championships had their team provided them better support.

[operaman]

I agree with both Spanky and WB. I consider Alonso and Hamilton to be 2 of the best .... Hamilton for outright speed and aggression, Alonso for his tactical approach and his ability to see the big picture. I'd love to see them together again, this time at Ferrari.

[Hammer278]

He hasn't won much since he was beaten by Lewis in 2007

Thanks for reminding me Cookin - Nando has indeed beaten Lewis every one of his Ferrari years

I don't think he's actually "won" anything though. The only battle for second is in the WCC.

Cookin referred to their head-to-head record - which made me think of their head to head record since Nando came to Ferrari.

Beating Lewis, in two different cars, 4 years in a row is definitely impressive ASAIC because I rate Lewis extremely highly. Personally, I'd have him in a Ferrari ahead of Seb if we had a seat available.

When? He was referring to Alonso's success rate since Lewis beat him in 2007. As far as both Alonso and Hamilton are concerned, they've both had no success. There's no "head to head" referred by Cookin, the only time they had a "head to head" was in equal machinery in 2007 and Alonso lost. End.

[operaman]

He hasn't won much since he was beaten by Lewis in 2007

Thanks for reminding me Cookin - Nando has indeed beaten Lewis every one of his Ferrari years

I don't think he's actually "won" anything though. The only battle for second is in the WCC.

Cookin referred to their head-to-head record - which made me think of their head to head record since Nando came to Ferrari.

Beating Lewis, in two different cars, 4 years in a row is definitely impressive ASAIC because I rate Lewis extremely highly. Personally, I'd have him in a Ferrari ahead of Seb if we had a seat available.

When? He was referring to Alonso's success rate since Lewis beat him in 2007. As far as both Alonso and Hamilton are concerned, they've both had no success. There's no "head to head" referred by Cookin, the only time they had a "head to head" was in equal machinery in 2007 and Alonso lost. End.

Actually they tied in points.

[What's Burning?]

When? He was referring to Alonso's success rate since Lewis beat him in 2007. As far as both Alonso and Hamilton are concerned, they've both had no success. There's no "head to head" referred by Cookin, the only time they had a "head to head" was in equal machinery in 2007 and Alonso lost. End.

Actually they tied in points.

and when there's a points tie they go to the results column, so by the FiA's account which is the only one that matters, Alonso a two time champion at the time was beaten by an incoming rookie.

[sagi58]

Actually they tied in points.

Same number of wins... Hamilton 5 second place finishes vs Alonso's 4...
Alonso with 4 third place finishes vs Hamilton's 3, so tied in trips to the podium!

Yes, Alonso was the more experienced driver and you'd have expected him to.
Having said that, not even statistics are as black and white as they seem!!

[CookinFlat6]

Cookin referred to their head-to-head record - which made me think of their head to head record since Nando came to Ferrari.

Nando hasn't won any titles since he was beaten by Lewis to second place in 2007. They have been in different teams since. Lewis won the WDC after 2007 ofcourse

Actually they tied in points.

As far as 2007 and the order of best performers we can ask ourselves this;

If AC Milan and inter Milan finished the season on equal points and Inter had a better goal difference, who would be declared winners of the title that year? Would AC supporters in ten years say 'it was a draw, we tied on points' or would that be too embarrassing to actually bring up?

[Hammer278]

Actually they tied in points.

Someone had to be classified 2nd as both can't share 1 position in the standings. There's a reason why Hamilton's name is above Alonso in the history books that year, like it or not....of course the ones in denial will have "they were tied in points" carved on their gravestones.

[CookinFlat6]

Whatever the fans may say about equal points, Alonso knows the the real truth. In fact he fled the team after blackmailing them because of his embarrassment. He fled to a mid grid team and spent 2 years struggling instead of rise to the challenge of a rookie

I am sure he would not want to argue that he came joint second in 2007 like his fans would,

[Jabberwocky]

Looking back at that season. The 1st thing that comes to mind is Alonso sitting in the pits blocking Lewis. When you think about it it took a lot of mental ability to do that and not get caught out of the lap himself

Sent using NCC-1701

[racechick]

That very incident is when I joined this forum to vent my anger so you all have Alonso to blame!!

[CookinFlat6]

Looking back at that season. The 1st thing that comes to mind is Alonso sitting in the pits blocking Lewis. When you think about it it took a lot of mental ability to do that and not get caught out of the lap himself

Sent using NCC-1701

Those are the kind of tricks more experienced guys pull against rookies in any discipline, the mental ability is a function of more experience with timing etc

The rookie still beat him at the end of the year though

[sagi58]

Whatever the fans may say about equal points, Alonso knows the the real truth. In fact he fled the team after blackmailing them because of his embarrassment. He fled to a mid grid team and spent 2 years struggling instead of rise to the challenge of a rookie

I am sure he would not want to argue that he came joint second in 2007 like his fans would,

Now... let me check!! YUP, it's the Alonso thread!! So, I can come to his defence!!

Yes, Alonso does know the truth, which he was ordered not to repeat. His departure was a "mutual" decision.
Hence, all we can actually do is speculate as to what really happened. What we do know is that McLaren was
fined $100M and Ron Dennis was removed from his position. THAT alone makes it obvious, to the impartial
observer, that there was culpability on their part. What was Alonso's role in all this? Only those involved can
answer that. The rest of us can only speculate and obviously his detractors will always find fault with Alonso.

As for the comment that Alonso couldn't rise to the challenge of a rookie, let's not forget one salient fact and
that is that the ENTIRE McLaren team was obviously on Hamilton's side of the garage, with Alonso being treated
like the outsider. For all intents and purposes, that's what he was: he wasn't Ron Dennis' pet project, he wasn't
the British Media's darling, he wasn't ever going to get equal treatment, in spite of McLaren having head hunted
him, in the first place. The clue in that being the case is only now coming to light with McLaren having decided
to get Alonso back on board, now that Hamilton has flown the coop. They may have realized that they backed
the wrong horse, after all.

[sagi58]

That very incident is when I joined this forum to vent my anger so you all have Alonso to blame!!

It's all about perspective... Personally, I'm going to get out a thank you card and mail it to him, right now!!