FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[spankyham]

.... Surely having a set fuel flow rate per hour as well as an overall quantity of fuel for the race means that they are less able to save fuel over the race?

Its not a set fuel rate, its a max fuel rate.

[CookinFlat6]

KERS today is 85 Bhp for 6 seconds. ERS will be 150 Bhp for how many... I think 10? More maybe? It's still a lot to say they'll be using just over half the fuel they use today.

The turbo element will take up a lot of the 'slack' but still a big efficiency increase. But Merc seem to have cracked it whilst pumping out more power than expected

[Jabberwocky]

A set fuel rate of 100L an hour, and a max of a 2 hour race. With 100L tank.

What is the average race length? And how much faster/slower are these cars expected to be? What is the average throttle time per lap

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

[spankyham]

KERS today is 85 Bhp for 6 seconds. ERS will be 150 Bhp for how many... I think 10? More maybe? It's still a lot to say they'll be using just over half the fuel they use today.

KERS was about what you said. Changes are the storage capacity is greatly increased, about quadrupled if I got it right plus the addition of HERS. KERS and HERS have restricted use, but, IMO we will see at least one of the ERS being used all the time.

[spankyham]

A set fuel rate of 100L an hour, and a max of a 2 hour race. With 100L tank.

What is the average race length? And how much faster/slower are these cars expected to be? What is the average throttle time per lap

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

That's exactly the nub of what I've been posting for a while now. Race distance is about 303-310Klms.

I'm guessing in race trim cars will be somewhere around 3 seconds per lap slower.

Ave full throttle time depends on the circuit, Monza has the highest with full throttle in the 70% mark I think. I'm guessing 8th gear will appear pretty much only at Monza, Spa etc.

[CookinFlat6]

There is no longer a push to pass button. All Kinetic and thermal energy stored are added to the IC output with changeable preset maps. So one or the other of kers and hers will be probably constantly in use.
The clever stuff will come from the recovered energy thats not stored but used in new and wonderful ways to help driveability, like pre spooling the turbine and (RBR) traction control

[What's Burning?]

It will be easy to tell with the on screen telemetry.

Can anyone good with math do some number crunching? 100 liters of fuel per race is 26.4 gallons. Today's V8s (although I can't confirm) run 300 lbs of fuel. But 100 liters is equal to 76 kg, and that's only 167.5 lbs. Little over half... So either these engines will indeed be VERY efficient, or like spanky says, they'll be in serious fuel conservation mode if they're not.

The amount of fuel isn't relevant. It the regulated energy flow rate that will force conservation mode for most of the race.

I'm with you but that's where the engineering comes in. Who can make an engine that with the maximum allowed fuel flow makes the most horsepower. That's the unknown.

I'm looking forward to next year.

[spankyham]

It will be easy to tell with the on screen telemetry.

Can anyone good with math do some number crunching? 100 liters of fuel per race is 26.4 gallons. Today's V8s (although I can't confirm) run 300 lbs of fuel. But 100 liters is equal to 76 kg, and that's only 167.5 lbs. Little over half... So either these engines will indeed be VERY efficient, or like spanky says, they'll be in serious fuel conservation mode if they're not.

The amount of fuel isn't relevant. It the regulated energy flow rate that will force conservation mode for most of the race.

I'm with you but that's where the engineering comes in. Who can make an engine that with the maximum allowed fuel flow makes the most horsepower. That's the unknown.

I'm looking forward to next year.

I don't think making max HP at max flow rate will have much relevance at all during the race. In Q, yes, but in race it will be meaningless if you can only run at max flow rate for a few laps.

I just don't want F1 to turn from the joke of tire preservation to the joke of fuel conservation.

[What's Burning?]

I hope you're being pessimistic. It's easy to change the flow rate if things get too bad though. I'd hate to have it done once again as a mid season change, but it's be very easy to correct in in 2015. There's bound to be some error correction but I doubt that if the team see a huge problem in winter testing that they wouldn't as a collective ask that the flow rate be adjusted before the season starts.

[spankyham]

I hope you're being pessimistic. It's easy to change the flow rate if things get too bad though. I'd hate to have it done once again as a mid season change, but it's be very easy to correct in in 2015. There's bound to be some error correction but I doubt that if the team see a huge problem in winter testing that they wouldn't as a collective ask that the flow rate be adjusted before the season starts.

I don't think there would be any chance of teams agreeing to a change given that some teams will be better off than others. The only way the tires were changed this year was because some teams were able to convince the FiA that Pirelli was wrong and that the tires were indeed a safety hazard. Lack of fuel wont be able to invoke the need for a safety change.

I know its using "averages" but, teams need to "average" a flow rate of about 2/3rds of the max flow rate over the distance of the race. To give you an better idea of how it might play out under the current rules, if we were at Malaysia and a team ran say 10 laps at max flow rate, they would need to average just over half the max flow rate for the rest of the race.

I'm also wondering how much in love with our new 2014-F1 people will be when we start seeing lap times more comparable to GP2 than the F1 I loved.

[What's Burning?]

There is one thing to keep in mind, there is no "team" in this case. We're dealing with 3 engine suppliers.

BTW Jabber I corrected myself before, it's 100 kg of fuel, not 100 liters.

[spankyham]

There is one thing to keep in mind, there is no "team" in this case. We're dealing with 3 engine suppliers. ...

If we are talking about changing the rules then it would require all the teams to agree. Given that some teams will be better off than others the rules wont change - no matter how rubbish the rules make the racing.

[sagi58]

...BTW Jabber I corrected myself before, it's 100 kg of fuel, not 100 liters.

They measure fuel by weight rather than by volume?

[Jabberwocky]

Yes. It is more aerospace like.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

[sagi58]