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[1Lemon]

I know, there are lots of reasons to disagree with things he did.

I bet your beef is that he was a 'terrorist' at one time. If so they do say 1 mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, and I am sure most would agree that he was fighting for freedom

He wasn't exactly a terrorist.... Like the Dali Llama isn't one.

[CookinFlat6]

I would also say history is written by the victorious.

When you think about it. Gerry Adams "career" follows a similar path. However Adams has not won his cause

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Mandela renounced violence and did time for his 'crime' of being a freedom fighter. Adams likewise quit violence and took to the ballot box.

I realise that you will have a viewpoint that is connected to being a soldier and seeing a guy with a gun as a guy with a gun. But all the historical struggles tell both sides its best to come to the table and talk. To do that there must be some forgive and forget otherwise its and endless fighting.

Its understandable for a soldier to see things a certain way and thats why we vote for politicians and not military rule

As far as victors writing history, we can still see what positions were wrong in the past. native Americans - we now accept those chiefs thought off as terrorists had a point. Occupied Europe, the resistance had a point, Anti apartheid fighters had a point.

And its incredible that some of these points were won non violently in the end. We have to see the glory in the human spirit to be able to rise above base violence, greed and fear and prevail.

Thats the difference between humans and brute animals

[Jabberwocky]

it is why people alway feel the need for violence instead of going to the table.

[What's Burning?]

it is why people alway feel the need for violence instead of going to the table.

The Afrikaner minority wasn't coming to the table, they were happy to control a 90% black majority with only a 10% white minority and abolished all non white politics out by the early 70.

Clearly they weren't coming to the table to negotiate either, and many minorities disappeared or were forced out of their homes to segregate neighborhoods, when the government pushes a people so far you can't then condemn them for choosing violence as their only recourse.

It's kind of the same way America got started and you'd be hard pressed to find someone calling George Washington a terrorist.

[1Lemon]

it is why people alway feel the need for violence instead of going to the table.

The Afrikaner minority wasn't coming to the table, they were happy to control a 90% black majority with only a 10% white minority and abolished all non white politics out by the early 70.

Clearly they weren't coming to the table to negotiate either, and many minorities dissipated or were forced out of their homes to segregate neighborhoods, when the government pushes a people so far you can't then condemn them for choosing violence as their only recourse.

It's kind of the same way America got started and you'd be hard pressed to find someone calling George Washington a terrorist.

George Washington was a terrorist....

[Jabberwocky]

It's kind of the same way America got started and you'd be hard pressed to find someone calling George Washington a terrorist.

If the evil Englanders had won the battle for independence he would of been called that in the history books.

[CookinFlat6]

Very true Jabs, but us on here today could debate that he was a freedom fighter and that he had a point. Who knows the British government might even have apologised for the past. Like they have done with things that happened in Ireland and galvanised your Adams and co

If the government can turn around and apologise for 'terrorist like activities' in the past and Adams can renounce violence and talking happens, then it shows the way

As far as Nelson, coming out of jail after those years I would have been hell bent on the worst revenge on De Klerk or de boer or de whoever and kept myself going in jail with thoughts of boiling and eating his kids etc

I also know this makes Mandela a better man than I and for that I have some hope for humanity

[CookinFlat6]

it is why people alway feel the need for violence instead of going to the table.

The Afrikaner minority wasn't coming to the table, they were happy to control a 90% black majority with only a 10% white minority and abolished all non white politics out by the early 70.

Clearly they weren't coming to the table to negotiate either, and many minorities dissipated or were forced out of their homes to segregate neighborhoods, when the government pushes a people so far you can't then condemn them for choosing violence as their only recourse.

It's kind of the same way America got started and you'd be hard pressed to find someone calling George Washington a terrorist.

George Washington was a terrorist....

Actually, I am now sure you are not Andrew, because you might just be right here. GW wasnt a freedom fighter in the spirit of Mandela. He was more fighting for freedom from paying excessive tax to his paymaster, England, who facilitated and underwrote his little holiday resort for religious fanatics who were shunned in Europe.

I mean, how can you be a freedom fighter when you got your own slaves in tow?

[racechick]

it is why people alway feel the need for violence instead of going to the table.

The Afrikaner minority wasn't coming to the table, they were happy to control a 90% black majority with only a 10% white minority and abolished all non white politics out by the early 70.

Clearly they weren't coming to the table to negotiate either, and many minorities dissipated or were forced out of their homes to segregate neighborhoods, when the government pushes a people so far you can't then condemn them for choosing violence as their only recourse.

It's kind of the same way America got started and you'd be hard pressed to find someone calling George Washington a terrorist.

George Washington was a terrorist....

Actually, I am now sure you are not Andrew, because you might just be right here. GW wasnt a freedom fighter in the spirit of Mandela. He was more fighting for freedom from paying excessive tax to his paymaster, England, who facilitated and underwrote his little holiday resort for religious fanatics who were shunned in Europe.

I mean, how can you be a freedom fighter when you got your own slaves in tow?

Now when you put it like that................

[CookinFlat6]

After a few glasses of Pinot Noir and a couple of a lesser Merlot, I suddenly saw things in their true light