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By racechick
#379829
Hope that's right.
User avatar
By acosmichippo
#379832
Lots of aero concepts carry on, however without an engine that lasts the race and powers the car, the extra 0.5 sec from best aero concepts will just be a work of art

That's the whole idea, the power units will cause changes across the grid and therefore if there was gonna be a 'reset' this is when it would happen. Aero doesn't bring more speed than an extra 100 bhp. And the incremental advantages produced by Neweys cleverness will be pretty irrelevant with the new regs

Everyone now knows how to shape a car for downforce, the clever stuff like blown diffusers that many were slow to exploit has been abolished.

This is a forced return to power and mechanical grip. The only 2 sec advantage will be there

Ross Brawn is being provocative, IMHO , there is no way aero and design within the regs can bring the time a good engine and car bring. Let's remember that engines have been frozen for years allowing gains to come from aero

So unless he means Renault are carrying over some tricks Merc haven't thought of RBRs 2 sec advantage won't be carried over by the same aero tricks


No one is saying RBR will have a two second advantage next year. In fact, Nico was the one making an absolute claim by saying everyone starts from zero next year. We can argue all day about how important aero learned in the last few years will be in 2014, but I think we all can agree that it isn't ZERO. Of course there are a ton of factors involved in predicting 2014, but the point is given the info we have now, I think it's pretty safe to say Red Bull will still have the upper hand to some degree.
User avatar
By darwin dali
#379833
Lots of aero concepts carry on, however without an engine that lasts the race and powers the car, the extra 0.5 sec from best aero concepts will just be a work of art

That's the whole idea, the power units will cause changes across the grid and therefore if there was gonna be a 'reset' this is when it would happen. Aero doesn't bring more speed than an extra 100 bhp. And the incremental advantages produced by Neweys cleverness will be pretty irrelevant with the new regs

Everyone now knows how to shape a car for downforce, the clever stuff like blown diffusers that many were slow to exploit has been abolished.

This is a forced return to power and mechanical grip. The only 2 sec advantage will be there

Ross Brawn is being provocative, IMHO , there is no way aero and design within the regs can bring the time a good engine and car bring. Let's remember that engines have been frozen for years allowing gains to come from aero

So unless he means Renault are carrying over some tricks Merc haven't thought of RBRs 2 sec advantage won't be carried over by the same aero tricks


No one is saying RBR will have a two second advantage next year. In fact, Nico was the one making an absolute claim by saying everyone starts from zero next year. We can argue all day about how important aero learned in the last few years will be in 2014, but I think we all can agree that it isn't ZERO. Of course there are a ton of factors involved in predicting 2014, but the point is given the info we have now, I think it's pretty safe to say Red Bull will still have the upper hand to some degree.

Unless the Renault engine is a dog...
By CookinFlat6
#379834
Lots of aero concepts carry on, however without an engine that lasts the race and powers the car, the extra 0.5 sec from best aero concepts will just be a work of art

That's the whole idea, the power units will cause changes across the grid and therefore if there was gonna be a 'reset' this is when it would happen. Aero doesn't bring more speed than an extra 100 bhp. And the incremental advantages produced by Neweys cleverness will be pretty irrelevant with the new regs

Everyone now knows how to shape a car for downforce, the clever stuff like blown diffusers that many were slow to exploit has been abolished.

This is a forced return to power and mechanical grip. The only 2 sec advantage will be there

Ross Brawn is being provocative, IMHO , there is no way aero and design within the regs can bring the time a good engine and car bring. Let's remember that engines have been frozen for years allowing gains to come from aero

So unless he means Renault are carrying over some tricks Merc haven't thought of RBRs 2 sec advantage won't be carried over by the same aero tricks


No one is saying RBR will have a two second advantage next year. In fact, Nico was the one making an absolute claim by saying everyone starts from zero next year. We can argue all day about how important aero learned in the last few years will be in 2014, but I think we all can agree that it isn't ZERO. Of course there are a ton of factors involved in predicting 2014, but the point is given the info we have now, I think it's pretty safe to say Red Bull will still have the upper hand to some degree.


only if Renault build a power unit on par with Merc :thumbup:
User avatar
By acosmichippo
#379838
Right, one of the tons of factors I mentioned. At this point, there's no reason to believe they will.
User avatar
By Jabberwocky
#379839
Lots of aero concepts carry on, however without an engine that lasts the race and powers the car, the extra 0.5 sec from best aero concepts will just be a work of art

That's the whole idea, the power units will cause changes across the grid and therefore if there was gonna be a 'reset' this is when it would happen. Aero doesn't bring more speed than an extra 100 bhp. And the incremental advantages produced by Neweys cleverness will be pretty irrelevant with the new regs

Everyone now knows how to shape a car for downforce, the clever stuff like blown diffusers that many were slow to exploit has been abolished.

This is a forced return to power and mechanical grip. The only 2 sec advantage will be there

Ross Brawn is being provocative, IMHO , there is no way aero and design within the regs can bring the time a good engine and car bring. Let's remember that engines have been frozen for years allowing gains to come from aero

So unless he means Renault are carrying over some tricks Merc haven't thought of RBRs 2 sec advantage won't be carried over by the same aero tricks


No one is saying RBR will have a two second advantage next year. In fact, Nico was the one making an absolute claim by saying everyone starts from zero next year. We can argue all day about how important aero learned in the last few years will be in 2014, but I think we all can agree that it isn't ZERO. Of course there are a ton of factors involved in predicting 2014, but the point is given the info we have now, I think it's pretty safe to say Red Bull will still have the upper hand to some degree.


only if Renault build a power unit on par with Merc :thumbup:

You are assuming that the merc is not a dog of an engine. Yes I know they say it is 100bhp up. But if it only lasts 50 miles then it is of no use

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
By Hammer278
#379848
I highly doubt the brand which has been reputed to develop the best engines in the paddock for almost the past decade, and strong advocates FOR the new regulations would develop an engine which is a dud/lasts 50 miles.

Anyway, no point speculating....I'm sure most of us have been looking forward to 2014 from 4 races back. :censored:
User avatar
By 1Lemon
#379851
The best engine on the grid? After the last 4 years have been won by a Renault engine with Ferrari second most of those years?

I'm hopeful Merc make a good engine but no where as near as optimistic as you lot.
Last edited by 1Lemon on 07 Nov 13, 11:13, edited 1 time in total.
By What's Burning?
#379852
The best RC engineon the grid? After the last 4 years have been won by a Renault engine with Ferrari second most of those years?


As it's been mentioned, engine development has been frozen for quite some time so I doubt there was no reason to even have a debate about the best engine. That's no longer the case.
User avatar
By NHcheese
#379853
Merc have high hopes with their V6. I doubt it though.
User avatar
By 1Lemon
#379866
The best RC engineon the grid? After the last 4 years have been won by a Renault engine with Ferrari second most of those years?


As it's been mentioned, engine development has been frozen for quite some time so I doubt there was no reason to even have a debate about the best engine. That's no longer the case.


Apparently they've put over 600 people into the new engine project, where Renault has just 200; that could be a case of creating an amazing power unit, or too many cooks with too many ideas.
By Hammer278
#379870
The best engine on the grid? After the last 4 years have been won by a Renault engine with Ferrari second most of those years?

I'm hopeful Merc make a good engine but no where as near as optimistic as you lot.


Yeap, widely regarded as the most powerful though thirstier than the Renault.

The Formula has many more variables included along with the engine. Aero takes precedence, and it's fair to say the McLaren, the Mercedes, and Force India's aero has never been 'Newey-fied'...thus the lack of success for Mercedes engines. Until now I hope. :D
User avatar
By racechick
#379885
What are RC engines? :P
User avatar
By 1Lemon
#379886
What are RC engines? :P


Not very complicated, and only work well for Lewis. :hehe:
User avatar
By darwin dali
#379900
What are RC engines? :P


Not very complicated, and only work well for Lewis. :hehe:

Ouch! :P
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