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By 1Lemon
#379699
You all know I'm a Tifosa first and foremost; but, I really think Vettel is taking a lot of flack!
He is not of our generation! His generation is about "instant gratification" and that's just how it is!
When they do succeed, they celebrate. Period.


Talkin' bout' my generation. :hehe:


Try this "oldie" on for size:

[youtube]594WLzzb3JI[/youtube]


That is what I was quoting (Otherwise that would have been an amazing coincidence :hehe: )
By What's Burning?
#379700
Red Bull has had to launch a massive PR campaign to try to get the guy liked by the masses. It's just not working letting him win title after title. Some very successful sports figures transcend their sport, others don't.

For whatever reason, Vettel is in the don't column.
By Hammer278
#379711
It's the characteristics of a driver. The general masses look up to a personality they aspire to, mostly badass (James Hunt, in this era you can't be one due to PR issues), highly determined and feared for his almost 'insectile' focus (Lauda, The Schum), Nonchalant don't-give-a-f**k attitude (You-know-who, but also Hakkinen in a gentleman way), Grounded guy who's brash and open about his thinking (Lewis, Webber), etcetc

If you have a very talented guy who unfortunately for him, resembles a young musician which a lot of people think is a pest in the music industry...and yell out like a 12 year old kid at the end of every race, and seems to have been given all the comforts and advantages in which is already the best team in the sport....it's tough to build a fan base.

One thing though, I'm one of the fans who appreciate his doughnuts after a race.....I'm just a sucker for them. Reminds me of the old F1 where DC used to do them (or burnouts) almost whenever he wins. :thumbup:
By Big Azza
#379722
It's just a case of tall poppy syndrome.

I really can't be bothered posting here much anymore... I feel like we are all parrots going over the same arguments time and time again.

Vettel has always given his team due credit. Always says the car was perfect after every race win. Any moment he says anything that can be slightly construed as otherwise, gets pounced on and used as more ammunition against him.

But even people who hardly watch F1 turn on the tv, see Vettel give an interview and say he's arrogant. The thing is, similar things were said of Hamilton and Button when they were winning. Rosberg tried it on after his first couple of wins, but is now probably the most pleasant driver on the grid - I love his post race interviews. :thumbup:

My Korean flatmate who hardly ever watches F1 came in the other day, pointed at the screen at Vettel, and said in his broken English: "This driver.... always winning."

The driver driving the best car will always win the title 9 times out of 10. The last driver to win a championship without the best car was Raikkonen in 2007. Then probably Keke Rosberg in 1982? The years between them it was always either Mclaren, Williams, Ferrari and Renault dominating the seasons.

So the very nature of F1 - the sport we profess to love - is superior racing machines with superior athletes driving around in circles and trying to be better than everyone else at it. It was always about trying to innovate new technologies to be faster than everyone. But you can't do that with a drop-kick driving the car; he has to be fast and consistent so that the team can improve the technology over the course of the season.

If you can't get used to the fastest car always winning - go and watch Indycar or Nascar or something... Or, maybe the sport will finally bow to pressure from racegoers and just become a spec-series. Even my aforementioned Korean flatmate doesn't think it's fair on the drivers that the cars are different.

But the moment they switch to a spec series will probably be the time I stop watching Formula One.

It really is frustrating trying to talk to fans of this sport. I only really started thinking about F1 when I got my first Playstation in 2005 and played the game based on the '95 season. Ever since then this small spark has kindled into a burning passion. The thing is, the arguments that F1 fans have are never the same as fans of other sports. Football fans and Rugby Fans never have to argue or defend the reason why the team they support is so great. We just accept it. The only arguments seem to arise from refereeing controversies.

In cricket it's often arguments about which players should be picked for the national team, but we accept that the issue is that the Australian selectors are off their faces picking rubbish players, and that it's our team's fault for not being up to speed with the rest of the world. We don't keep waiting and hoping that the rules will one day change to level the playing field.

It's stupid though that that's exactly what F1 fans do. They kick up a stink about how the best team always wins, and then hope for a rule change to level the playing field. I have never come across a sport like this...

The drivers in the team are just like individual football players. Football teams make decisions to purchase the best players they can afford to make their team succeed. Sebastian Vettel is similar to Christiano Ronaldo. The teams pay big bucks to keep these guys on their team and do not want to release them to their bitter rivals to gain an advantage.

Sure Hamilton and Alonso are great, but Red Bull are the best team in Formula One at the moment and Sebastian Vettel is doing the job for them. The minute Vettel or Newey stop doing their jobs, they will be fired and then Red Bull will sign the next best replacement available to them.

Ferrari have tried supporting Alonso to get a WDC by keeping a sub-par driver in Felipe Massa to "support" him. But as Alonso on his own is unable to overcome Red Bull and Vettel in the Driver's championship and stand no chance in Constructor's, they are now changing their tact by going for 2 world champions in a bid to secure the WCC.

Regardless of anything that we speculate or say or do - you and I will never affect the outcome of a race or future championships. So either you can resort to jumping up and down complaining and wishing F1 would change, which is bad for your health - elevated blood pressure etc; or you could just accept that F1 is what it is.

Maybe too much focus is placed on the drivers. But it is just the same as any team sport. Who is the best football player in the world? Ronaldo or Messi? Why do clubs pay millions of dollars for them? A defender will never be regarded as the best player in the world - but they are a necessary part of football, just like designers and mechanics are in F1.

As for me, I will continue to watch Formula One and accept it for what it is. I'll continue to be awed and impressed by skills of the drivers that grace this wonderful sport. And I will continue to praise the teams (drivers + mechanics + engineers + designers) that dominate our beloved sport - and I just hope that this formula of dominant teams and drivers never changes....
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By 1Lemon
#379731
The driver driving the best car will always win the title 9 times out of 10. The last driver to win a championship without the best car was Raikkonen in 2007. Then probably Keke Rosberg in 1982? The years between them it was always either Mclaren, Williams, Ferrari and Renault dominating the seasons.

So the very nature of F1 - the sport we profess to love - is superior racing machines with superior athletes driving around in circles and trying to be better than everyone else at it. It was always about trying to innovate new technologies to be faster than everyone. But you can't do that with a drop-kick driving the car; he has to be fast and consistent so that the team can improve the technology over the course of the season.


:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:

I don't get why people don't see this!
By What's Burning?
#379733
I think knowledgeable F1 fans may not like the dominance, but I know that's not the reason leading up to him being booed on multiple podiums. They are separate issues and I believe Vettel, his fans, and most of all Red Bull are erroneously conflating the two.
By CookinFlat6
#379735
I really can't be bothered posting here much anymore... I feel like we are all parrots going over the same arguments time and time again.

Is this deja vu? havent we been here before recently? :confused:

My Korean flatmate who hardly ever watches F1 came in the other day, pointed at the screen at Vettel, and said in his broken English: "This driver.... always winning."

Are we still on the indiscriminate genaralising about other races and shouting rascist insults just because they are driving differently to us on the road?

The driver driving the best car will always win the title 9 times out of 10. The last driver to win a championship without the best car was Raikkonen in 2007. Then probably Keke Rosberg in 1982? The years between them it was always either Mclaren, Williams, Ferrari and Renault dominating the seasons.


:bs: Lewis in 2008 won in the second best car. The best car was the Ferrari which also won the WCC. Its not just about the best car its about the best car for one driver but not his teammate who is hardly allowed to challenge and is not a top driver, yet matches Seb whenever allowed. This is the part that rankles with most, especially when the finger is then held up to remind of this fact about the car
The thing is, the arguments that F1 fans have are never the same as fans of other sports. Football fans and Rugby Fans never have to argue or defend the reason why the team they support is so great. We just accept it. The only arguments seem to arise from refereeing controversies.


:rofl::rofl::rofl: these sports are generally about individual and collective ability. In F1 there is the small matter of the car being upto 80% of the result. You mentioned this earlier but seem to have forgotten

As for me, I will continue to watch Formula One and accept it for what it is. I'll continue to be awed and impressed by skills of the drivers that grace this wonderful sport. And I will continue to praise the teams (drivers + mechanics + engineers + designers) that dominate our beloved sport - and I just hope that this formula of dominant teams and drivers never changes....


Glad to hear that, maybe whilst you are carrying on with that you may let others carry on with theirs :thumbup:
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By 1Lemon
#379737
My Korean flatmate who hardly ever watches F1 came in the other day, pointed at the screen at Vettel, and said in his broken English: "This driver.... always winning."

Are we still on the indiscriminate genaralising about other races and shouting rascist insults just because they are driving differently to us on the road?


Really? Where did you get the 'racist' comments in there? He can' exactly be discriminatory as he lives with him... He's Korean so he may have broken english, why is this so shocking? He hardly ever watches F1 and recognises that Vettel keeps winning. And at no point did he mention his driving skills. Quick PC police, he mentioned a race, he must be racist!
By Hammer278
#379741

The driver driving the best car will always win the title 9 times out of 10. The last driver to win a championship without the best car was Raikkonen in 2007. Then probably Keke Rosberg in 1982? The years between them it was always either Mclaren, Williams, Ferrari and Renault dominating the seasons.



How do you work out that Raikkonen won in the 2nd best car in 2007 (they won the WCC), but Hamilton won in the best car in 2008 (McLaren lost the WCC)? Just curious.
By CookinFlat6
#379746
My Korean flatmate who hardly ever watches F1 came in the other day, pointed at the screen at Vettel, and said in his broken English: "This driver.... always winning."

Are we still on the indiscriminate genaralising about other races and shouting rascist insults just because they are driving differently to us on the road?


Really? Where did you get the 'racist' comments in there? He can' exactly be discriminatory as he lives with him... He's Korean so he may have broken english, why is this so shocking? He hardly ever watches F1 and recognises that Vettel keeps winning. And at no point did he mention his driving skills. Quick PC police, he mentioned a race, he must be racist!


This is why so many fail exams nowadays, they don't read carefully or consider the context before jumping in to 'express' themselves

I asked mr eugenics if he was still behaving a certain way
He was overlapping Perez who wouldn't get out of the way. Vettel was racing Webber on a different strategy. Vettel was desperate for the win. I know he's being a bit of a sook about it - but he wants to win...

How frustrated do you get when someone cuts you off in traffic, or is going 20km/h in a 60km/h zone and you can't get around them? With me, I start shouting and screaming like an idiot inside my car - and resort to bad name calling and racial stereotypes.
User avatar
By 1Lemon
#379747
My Korean flatmate who hardly ever watches F1 came in the other day, pointed at the screen at Vettel, and said in his broken English: "This driver.... always winning."

Are we still on the indiscriminate genaralising about other races and shouting rascist insults just because they are driving differently to us on the road?


Really? Where did you get the 'racist' comments in there? He can' exactly be discriminatory as he lives with him... He's Korean so he may have broken english, why is this so shocking? He hardly ever watches F1 and recognises that Vettel keeps winning. And at no point did he mention his driving skills. Quick PC police, he mentioned a race, he must be racist!


This is why so many fail exams nowadays, they don't read carefully or consider the context before jumping in to 'express' themselves

I asked mr eugenics if he was still behaving a certain way
He was overlapping Perez who wouldn't get out of the way. Vettel was racing Webber on a different strategy. Vettel was desperate for the win. I know he's being a bit of a sook about it - but he wants to win...

How frustrated do you get when someone cuts you off in traffic, or is going 20km/h in a 60km/h zone and you can't get around them? With me, I start shouting and screaming like an idiot inside my car - and resort to bad name calling and racial stereotypes.


You're the one here who brought up stereotypes about how people drive, no one even came near mentioning that into you started; so please, don't try to belittle my intelligence by saying I fail at exams because of an out of context quote you dragged up from another thread several weeks ago. Or should I be taking notes on the psyche of each individual forum member so I can immediately bring up past discrepancies, and pass your pop quizzes?
By CookinFlat6
#379759
My post, which was addressed to another member asked a question relating to his own prior admission of a propensity to racially stereotype and insult and judge the driving abilities of others according to racial profiling

You decided to butt into the conversation without understanding the context and proceeded to accuse others of excessive political correctness and unnessesary accusations of racial profiling

And even after your error was pointed out, you still persist in an argument that is pointless and a detour from the debate at hand

An exam testing comprehension and/or cognitive abilities would likely consider this a big fail
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By racechick
#379766
Big Azza, you've gone to some length to explain what you enjoy about f1 and I see where you're coming from. But it's different for everyone. I've watched f1 for a lot longer than you have, not that that makes any difference at all. F1 has changed a lot during the time I've watched, not all for the good, somethings for the bad, but I go on watching because however much we moan it's the best we've got.
Some people like the team aspect, some the technical, some the skill of the driver. For me it's the latter, and I don't like things that detract from that,but I do realise a driver is nothing without his team and a fast car behind him.
But it doesn't really matter which aspect we like best, we take what we enjoy most from our sport. No right way to support, no wrong. It's nice if respect is given when it's due.....and that I think is the issue we come to with regard to Vettel. Not everyone feels he deserves the accolades that are being heaped upon him. Not that they don't respect his driving skill. That they don't respect the way it's been done. The way we are told something that does quite ring true, doesn't sit right. And so the forums go round in circles discussing it and Vettel isn't ever so popular and gets booed.
By What's Burning?
#379770
As succinctly as I can put it, to me Vettel's desire to win is avarice instead of others in the past having that desire to win seem like tenacity.

It's simply how I feel, I know I'm not alone in that, hence the boos and the disbelief that he's the accolades the PR campaign is on an all out media assault to make us see their way are falling on deaf ears on a very noticeable segment of the fans.

I respect his driving skills, the way I respect the skill of a half dozen other existing drivers, but I don't believe that there's any more to his skills than a guy being in the right place at the right time. I've said before, in the last four seasons, and four championships later, I've seen Vettel truly drive a car like the Red Bull PR machine says he does, perhaps four or five times. I've seen him make twice as many mistakes in the rare times he's been under pressure.
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