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[What's Burning?]

I'm not vilifying them though, to me it's just that they're not entirely controlling the bucking bull. You know that crap wouldn't fly at Ferrari. Nico didn't dare cross Ross, but Vettel was allowed to openly disobey a team order and the management tucked their collective tails between their legs.

Now it's a crusade to dissuade the crowds from booing? Spare me the bull.

P.S. Has anyone noticed a preponderance of bull references in my posts?

[Roth]

I'm not vilifying them though, to me it's just that they're not entirely controlling the bucking bull. You know that crap wouldn't fly at Ferrari. Nico didn't dare cross Ross, but Vettel was allowed to openly disobey a team order and the management tucked their collective tails between their legs.

Now it's a crusade to dissuade the crowds from booing? Spare me the bull.

Different teams, different problems but we'll always take whatever part and make it the cause of all our ills and frustrations.
Next year hopefully they'll be stuck with a very frustrated and unhappy Vettel, and it will make all this more palatable.

P.S. Has anyone noticed a preponderance of bull references in my posts?

You know, i hadn't noticed. But that's what I like about this place. Like a great novel, it only gets better on re-reading.

[racechick]

Mark Hughes here giving a little more insight into how Vettel gains his advantage. He praises Vettel for recognising how to go faster in the Newey car with the blown exhaust. Explains how he does it and why he goes faster than webber. Next year he won't have this advantage, Hughes muses on whether he will find another one.
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058 ... -advantage

[darwin dali]

Mark Hughes here giving a little more insight into how Vettel gains his advantage. He praises Vettel for recognising how to go faster in the Newey car with the blown exhaust. Explains how he does it and why he goes faster than webber. Next year he won't have this advantage, Hughes muses on whether he will find another one.
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058 ... -advantage

Well, MH provides what must be for the other drivers a demoralizing account of SV's skills and character. Maybe, just maybe, he IS being underestimated and his greatness is not being recognized enough and done justice...

[CookinFlat6]

Mark Hughes here giving a little more insight into how Vettel gains his advantage. He praises Vettel for recognising how to go faster in the Newey car with the blown exhaust. Explains how he does it and why he goes faster than webber. Next year he won't have this advantage, Hughes muses on whether he will find another one.
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058 ... -advantage

Some interesting points that are clearly factual

In his first Championship season of 2010 it did not play a role and his performance was very closely matched with Webber's; in fact only the latter's accident in the rain of Korea swung things in Vettel's favour. Without that, Webber would have won the title.

That latter technology was banned for 2012 and initially Webber was closely matched to his team-mate once more, but as Red Bull developed chassis dynamics that used entry oversteer to aid direction change, so Vettel was able to use the strong on-throttle blowing once more to counter the downsides of that oversteer - and his advantage over Webber returned.

Now we know exactly why Red Bull developed chassis dynamics that used entry oversteer to aid direction change - this time the car was moulded around Sebs needs

Next season exhaust blowing is definitively gone.

So the challenge - and the key area of advantage - will switch to something else. Working out how best to use what little fuel you have, perhaps? Whatever it turns out to be, Vettel will be hungrily onto it and his sharp mind and fierce competitive drive will combine with his natural talent

yup lets wait to see if Seb continues to win or look exceptionally good in a brand new regulatory environment. If he does then he is truly exceptional.

If he doesnt, then he will confirm his status as one trick pony along with Button and the DD. The only difference ofcourse being that his trick existed for 5 years and not just 1.

This will be interesting

[sagi58]

Well, MH provides what must be for the other drivers a demoralizing account of SV's skills and character. Maybe, just maybe, he IS being underestimated and his greatness is not being recognized enough and done justice...

The thing is, we've become accustomed to hearing excuses, rationalizations, explanations about why Vettel wins so consistently!
Most of those are centered around his success being completely dependent upon the car h's driving!
There have been countless discussions, debates, arguments about which element (car, driver, team) can guarantee success!
As little as I know about F1, it seems to me that all three are equally important, with the deciding vote going to Lady Luck!

The moral of this story: You should never underestimate any opponent! To do so is hazardous to success!

[racechick]

Mark Hughes here giving a little more insight into how Vettel gains his advantage. He praises Vettel for recognising how to go faster in the Newey car with the blown exhaust. Explains how he does it and why he goes faster than webber. Next year he won't have this advantage, Hughes muses on whether he will find another one.
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058 ... -advantage

Well, MH provides what must be for the other drivers a demoralizing account of SV's skills and character. Maybe, just maybe, he IS being underestimated and his greatness is not being recognized enough and done justice...

I doubt the other drivers are demoralised, I imagine they'll be thinking just put me in that car!!

In this article Hughes is looking purely at the skills of Vettel. He has also in the past analysed the skills of Alonso and Hamilton and they are also formidable!

Next year will be interesting indeed.

[darwin dali]

Mark Hughes here giving a little more insight into how Vettel gains his advantage. He praises Vettel for recognising how to go faster in the Newey car with the blown exhaust. Explains how he does it and why he goes faster than webber. Next year he won't have this advantage, Hughes muses on whether he will find another one.
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058 ... -advantage

Well, MH provides what must be for the other drivers a demoralizing account of SV's skills and character. Maybe, just maybe, he IS being underestimated and his greatness is not being recognized enough and done justice...

I doubt the other drivers are demoralised, I imagine they'll be thinking just put me in that car!!

In this article Hughes is looking purely at the skills of Vettel. He has also in the past analysed the skills of Alonso and Hamilton and they are also formidable!

Next year will be interesting indeed.

Really? FA sounded rather dejected: Sour grapes

[racechick]

Mark Hughes here giving a little more insight into how Vettel gains his advantage. He praises Vettel for recognising how to go faster in the Newey car with the blown exhaust. Explains how he does it and why he goes faster than webber. Next year he won't have this advantage, Hughes muses on whether he will find another one.
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058 ... -advantage

Well, MH provides what must be for the other drivers a demoralizing account of SV's skills and character. Maybe, just maybe, he IS being underestimated and his greatness is not being recognized enough and done justice...

I doubt the other drivers are demoralised, I imagine they'll be thinking just put me in that car!!

In this article Hughes is looking purely at the skills of Vettel. He has also in the past analysed the skills of Alonso and Hamilton and they are also formidable!

Next year will be interesting indeed.

Really? FA sounded rather dejected: Sour grapes

Well of course he will, because he's not the one in the fast car. He's the one being told the success is all down to the driver. He may be demoralised at fighting a car two seconds a lap faster but certainly not demoralised by SV's skills.

[darwin dali]

Mark Hughes here giving a little more insight into how Vettel gains his advantage. He praises Vettel for recognising how to go faster in the Newey car with the blown exhaust. Explains how he does it and why he goes faster than webber. Next year he won't have this advantage, Hughes muses on whether he will find another one.
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058 ... -advantage

Well, MH provides what must be for the other drivers a demoralizing account of SV's skills and character. Maybe, just maybe, he IS being underestimated and his greatness is not being recognized enough and done justice...

I doubt the other drivers are demoralised, I imagine they'll be thinking just put me in that car!!

In this article Hughes is looking purely at the skills of Vettel. He has also in the past analysed the skills of Alonso and Hamilton and they are also formidable!

Next year will be interesting indeed.

Really? FA sounded rather dejected: Sour grapes

Well of course he will, because he's not the one in the fast car. He's the one being told the success is all down to the driver. He may be demoralised at fighting a car two seconds a lap faster but certainly not demoralised by SV's skills.

You're still doing it, even after posting MH's article, still talking down SV's skills. It is HIM who's driving the car to new limits and probably nobody else could do it as successfully as SV!

[What's Burning?]

Let's let the four time WDC enjoy the fruits of his labor. He'll have to learn a whole new way of being great next year, no more blowing.

I mean, no one has managed to answer why his car sounded the way it did in Singapore, and these glossy eyed explanations don't account for any of that, but let's let bygones by bygones. Vettel will either shine in 2014 or he wont.

[Roth]

Let's let the four time WDC enjoy the fruits of his labor. He'll have to learn a whole new way of being great next year, no more blowing.

I mean, no one has managed to answer why his car sounded the way it did in Singapore, and these glossy eyed explanations don't account for any of that, but let's let bygones by bygones. Vettel will either shine in 2014 or he wont.

Vettel makes vroom noises inside his helmet. That's what you're hearing.

The article above tries to have it both ways, stating he got a car designed around him and managed to work the same trick race after race; but also that he's so smart he'll think his way around future problems and further into greatness. I can't believe he's the only driver on the grid able to do this. Like Alonso's 4/10ths, or Schumachers development genius, it helps explain success but mysteriously evaporates when they're struggling. We've seen him struggle in a RB for short periods over the last four years then the boffins have gotten onto it, and he's miraculously come good again. When the car is poor both drivers struggle. Vettel wasn't still putting it onto the front row with Webber in tenth.

[racechick]

Mark Hughes here giving a little more insight into how Vettel gains his advantage. He praises Vettel for recognising how to go faster in the Newey car with the blown exhaust. Explains how he does it and why he goes faster than webber. Next year he won't have this advantage, Hughes muses on whether he will find another one.
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058 ... -advantage

Well, MH provides what must be for the other drivers a demoralizing account of SV's skills and character. Maybe, just maybe, he IS being underestimated and his greatness is not being recognized enough and done justice...

I doubt the other drivers are demoralised, I imagine they'll be thinking just put me in that car!!

In this article Hughes is looking purely at the skills of Vettel. He has also in the past analysed the skills of Alonso and Hamilton and they are also formidable!

Next year will be interesting indeed.

Really? FA sounded rather dejected: Sour grapes

Well of course he will, because he's not the one in the fast car. He's the one being told the success is all down to the driver. He may be demoralised at fighting a car two seconds a lap faster but certainly not demoralised by SV's skills.

You're still doing it, even after posting MH's article, still talking down SV's skills. It is HIM who's driving the car to new limits and probably nobody else could do it as successfully as SV!

I'm not talking them down. I'm saying there's no evidence that other drivers couldn't have done what he's done. And without the car catering to his skills perhaps the other drivers would have had skills to their bows that Vettel doesn't have. You can't just learn natural talent. ( and before you jump on that statement, I'm not saying Vettel hasn't got natural talent because he has, but maybe not as all encompassing as some like to believe)

[CookinFlat6]

The only dispute here is if the Newey car is built around Sebs skillset in which case, Webber and most others would have similar results, or if Seb adapted to the car and tricks uniquely, in which case he is a genius who can do something Webber and others cant and we will see evidence of this next year when he similarly adapts to the new parameters 5x better than his teammate and everyone else.

I know which option I would bet on, partly because of the way Webber matches Seb when tricks that complement Sebs skills are not available

and the way Di Resta beat him in identical cars

[1Lemon]

and the way Di Resta beat him in identical cars

Second best driver on the grid though, you'd expect to be beaten by him.