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By Hammer278
#378192
Who'd of thought what this little scally wag would achieve....

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By NHcheese
#378248
He's always taken a good photo that Bieber. :)
By CookinFlat6
#378318
Eurosport have offered some very revealing stats and perspective on Sebs 'greatness' (maybe they have been reading this forum for pointers)

Interesting yet common sense stuff. Could also explain why excitable people are forever fated to jump on bandwagons and create massive bubbles over and over

Few snippets here, full article linked at the bottom
And that's very much how Motorhead sees Sebastian Vettel's achievement in winning four consecutive world titles. Sure, he's won another marathon. He did so in incredibly impressive fashion. But we need to look closely at the race he was actually running - because when considered objectively, there's no doubt that Vettel had so many advantages that he might as well have been driving downhill...

It's always seems very bad taste to use the occasion of a sportsman celebrating their greatest glory to point out that their achievement isn't all it's cracked up to be....

Everybody is loudly declaring him a genius of unimpeachable historical significance, without stopping to consider properly what it is that he's done....

How many more titles would Fangio have won had he got started aged 19, as Vettel did, instead of age 39? The answer is unthinkable, but double figures seems certain.
How many consecutive titles might Prost have won had he had more reliable cars in those near-misses in the early years of his career? Or if a driver less talented than Senna had been alongside him at McLaren? Or if that late 1980s technical dominance McLaren enjoyed had lasted the best part of a decade rather than a couple of years?
For that matter, how many titles would Ayrton Senna have won had he not been tragically killed?
And how many titles would Alonso have by now if he'd been driving that Red Bull car for the last four or five years? How many titles would Jenson Button have by now if the Brawn F1's vast advantage over the field in 2009 had lasted five years instead of 12 months?....

Or, to put it another way, the marathon he's been running has been downhill all the way, while Alonso - to pick just one example - has been running uphill, and doing himself immeasurable credit even keeping Vettel in sight.
So pat Sebastian Vettel on the back, or buy him a drink. Just don't kid yourself that he's fit to be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Fangio or Prost among the legends of the sport.
Maybe he will be one day. But not yet.


http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/motorhead-uk/vettel-good-one-greats-not-even-close-160644326.html
By CookinFlat6
#378319
personally I think Seb is a great driver, but just one of the best drivers on the grid. His consistency and focus and ruthlesness make him way above the good drivers. However 'a great' just because he has exploited the best car for a few years?

There will always be a question mark for me about because he gets matched by Webber when his car does not have the Newey tricks specifically designed for him

and Webber aint a great so how does that work?
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By Roth
#378322
I see Button's and Vettel's championships on equal terms. Their cars, to put it mildly, more than compensated for the gap in talent to better drivers in lesser cars.

Nice article aswell, but i tend to like ones I agree with and dismiss those I don't.
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By racechick
#378327
Yes great article. Sums up how I feel about him. What really rankled was him putting himself in the 'greats' bracket with Fanio and Prost, during his podium speech....I believe he missed out Ayrton. How odd. Perhaps he feels he's already surpassed senna.
Seb you don't put yourself in the 'great' bracket, other people do.
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By racechick
#378392
Exactly! Either that or they're the marketing company trying to promote him and sell drinks.
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By sagi58
#378398
Yes great article. Sums up how I feel about him. What really rankled was him putting himself in the 'greats' bracket with Fanio and Prost, during his podium speech....I believe he missed out Ayrton. How odd. Perhaps he feels he's already surpassed senna.
Seb you don't put yourself in the 'great' bracket, other people do.

More than likely he purposely did not mention Senna, since he has been linked with Hamilton so often!! :wink:
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By racechick
#378405
Yes great article. Sums up how I feel about him. What really rankled was him putting himself in the 'greats' bracket with Fanio and Prost, during his podium speech....I believe he missed out Ayrton. How odd. Perhaps he feels he's already surpassed senna.
Seb you don't put yourself in the 'great' bracket, other people do.

More than likely he purposely did not mention Senna, since he has been linked with Hamilton so often!! :wink:



No I doubt he even considered that. I think he just thought I've got four! I'm better than Senna, I've joined Porst, Schumacher and fangio. Well he can dream on . He's not in Senna league!
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By 1Lemon
#378407
Yes great article. Sums up how I feel about him. What really rankled was him putting himself in the 'greats' bracket with Fanio and Prost, during his podium speech....I believe he missed out Ayrton. How odd. Perhaps he feels he's already surpassed senna.
Seb you don't put yourself in the 'great' bracket, other people do.

More than likely he purposely did not mention Senna, since he has been linked with Hamilton so often!! :wink:



No I doubt he even considered that. I think he just thought I've got four! I'm better than Senna, I've joined Porst, Schumacher and fangio. Well he can dream on . He's not in Senna league!


I don't think he considers himself higher than Senna, he was merely stating the people has has joined in having 4 championships. Senna didn't so he didn't mention him. It would be weird if he said "I'm in the club with Fangio, Prost, Schumacher and Senna now" you'd end up with people complaining that he isn't in the same league of Senna or Senna didn't get 4 WDCs....

I feel a bit sorry for Vettel sometimes, he does everything right, the politics the racing and the taking control of a team; all the things you need to do in F1 (The kind of things Fangio, Prost and Schumacher did) however he just get's mowed down by fans for "having the best car" ala Prost, Schi and Fangio.
By What's Burning?
#378410
Frankly I blame Red Bull more than Vettel. I think he's a fine driver, excellent qualifyer, has the tenacity to win and has a great personality off the track.

Red Bull's failing is simply to have tried to keep up the facade of equality between their drivers and not make a clear distinction between a number one which Vettel clearly was (and deserved after 2010) and their number two driver. Ferrari makes no qualms about it, Red Bull chose to pretend.

So clearly when Vettel decided to override team orders in Malaysia and failed to maintain, the line of "Bull" they've been feeding everyone was exposed.
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By NHcheese
#378416
Frankly I blame Red Bull more than Vettel. I think he's a fine driver, excellent qualifyer, has the tenacity to win and has a great personality off the track.

Red Bull's failing is simply to have tried to keep up the facade of equality between their drivers and not make a clear distinction between a number one which Vettel clearly was (and deserved after 2010) and their number two driver. Ferrari makes no qualms about it, Red Bull chose to pretend.

So clearly when Vettel decided to override team orders in Malaysia and failed to the line of "Bull" they've been feeding everyone was exposed.


They always try to potray themselves as good, and fair. But they need to start telling the truth. The real truth.
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By Roth
#378429
If they struggle next season nobody will care. They'll find another team to vilify. Ferrari copped it in the neck about team orders, McLaren about stealing data, but people don't talk about it now because they're not the top teams.

People's attitude will be, oh yeah RB were shady but who cares? Merc are doing it now, lets go after them... or whoever.
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