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[Roth]

Not the most scientific research, but i had a quick look at 2008 for Vettel and from what I can tell his GP follow a similar pattern as today. Mainly it ran - steady mid-grid qualifying, close to but usually infront of Bourdais, and makes up positions in a race when higher placed cars fall out or drop back. Monza not withstanding there's nothing to denote the coming of a superstar. No precedent, at any time in his career, for this RB success.

Now, I know people mature differently - being a juniour tennis ace doesn't automatically translate to the pro circuit - but, seriously, there's nothing here that hints at special.

[CookinFlat6]

Personally I think Seb is without doubt exceptionally fast and amongst the top talents of this era. My opinion is that Lewis is faster and has better racecraft and a tougher disposition. I think Alonso has better racecraft, guile if not as absolutely fast.

The shame is that, with the MS era setting the tone, we have a similar situation to Pop factor or X model or whatever passes for musical excellence nowadays. Everyone can sing well in their own bathrooms and when some fall into the right package gain teenage fans who mistaken adolesenct crushes with real appreciation. This then causes a down grade of the manufactered pop star who might even be genuinely talented.

F1 missed a trick to return this sport to a competition by allowing RBR and Renault to get away with liberties since 2009. 2010 was interesting and if we had, say Lewis, Seb and Alonso in competitive cars, with competitive unhindered teammates then Seb along with the other 2 would have a great rivalry harking back to the old days of several good drivers competing at once.

As it is the situation where a driver wins 4 WDCs and yet is near universally disrespected and booed by the audiences is a sign of F1 not keeping an eye on the needs of the paying audience. After the MS turn off, it took a rookie allowed to compete with a 2x WDC to reverse the trend of switched off audiences. As Bernie said this artificial (against spirit of regs) era of RBR will come to an end next year. Then Seb has a chance to become as respected and admired as Lewis and Alonso

[Roth]

I love the way (and that's not sarcasm) that you have a very firm belief that next year will see a big shake up. Do you think it will be a similar line in the sand like 2009?

I can't shake the feeling that with Newey on board RB can achieve anything. They've proved they only have to be good for half a season to neuter the competition.

That 2005 feeling would be nice.

[Jabberwocky]

It depends how much effort newey has pit into this yesr over next

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

[CookinFlat6]

F1 became a big business on the back of the show packeged by Bernie and sold to circuits, countries and Tv stations. With a showman linke Bernie in charge we have seen many times changes that 'artificially' maintained public interest and get the competition fresh. Big regulation changes are always designed with a view to shaking things up.

Put it this way Bernie and FIA have always had the power to shake things up, or sometimes let a team dominate for a while in return for whatever they bring. We have seen special payments, inconsistent applications of penalties and snctions for different teams.

Bernie said he was sure red Bull dominance would end. Somehow this circumstancial evidence appears to me to have foundation. Put it this way, it would be the first time a winning streak like this has survived a major upheaval. And this is the biggest of all.

Also towards the end of a wining run certain patterns reccur that contribute to what we have seen before with streaks coming to an end. Designers and drivers on the winning streak team become valued temporarily higher than their real worth, then get poached on big money deals to other teams leaving the 'streaker' weakened at a time of change, and therefore having to start afresh like a lot of others

we are seeing some of this with Peter P poached by Honda etc

So to cut a long story short, RBR would be truly breaking the mould to start the new era as dominant as they were given other teams are starting at the same time. remeber that the RBR car was pretty much formed around the regs in 2009 and has just evolved since. Others got it wrong and have been patching up an inferior concept to compete. If its RBR alone who again crack it, then Im sure bernie and the FIA will not be so accomodating as they were in 2008 when the sport needed to see successful small/new teams take on the big boys.

just my own opinion, and perception of the facts available, some of which I have ignored for the sake of presentation. Dont mean to be filthy or disgusting and shamless

[Roth]

Well, when you put it like that, how can we not be looking foward to next yr?

I never really thought about it in those terms, that those dominations end when one of the major componants of the car is changed. I guess it used to be the engine - strap a Honda in the back, and away you go. Then it was Renault. In '05 wasn't it the swap to Michelin. Now they're wiping the slate clean.

[CookinFlat6]

Yeah Newey might be a great designer and the biggest proponent of aero. However the context is that his basic concept best exploited a particular regulation era. In which the top teams were caught napping. Its not like he was a genius who beat the other teams from scratch for 4 years in a row.
He has form for taking a while to master a new reg era. He has built duff cars.

like Seb he looks unbeatable etc because of a regulationary era that he won. thats coming to an end. aero is to be demoted in importance, power units, packaging, engine components, fuel efficiency, the drivers ability to adapt quickly to a range of different driving characteristics

Big stuff, and unless Newey is an expert at finding loopholes or at breaking the rules, then the nature of F1 and the talent pool they all draw from and have in common insist that there is more chance of a shakeup than status quo. And when you add the Bernie showman element, RBR aint gonna be getting away with handles in the cockpit and flapping wings as easy as before.

[What's Burning?]

I gave a recently banned member the example of a ride height adjustment while in parc ferme and he not once even acknowledge it. That was during the era of qualify 1st, get outside the DRS window before lap three, win race, repeat run that we saw in the 2011 season. The FiA however didn't pick it up until 2012. The fact that RB "could" have changed the car's ride height while in parc ferme doesn't mean they actually did it.

We just have to accept that Vettel is a fantastic enough driver to out qualify everyone else on Saturday and then have his car act as if an additional 300 lbs of fuel on board for Sunday didn't affect it and be well outside the one second DRS window by the time it was activated.

Aerodynamics doesn't involve tool free ride adjustments while the rules clearly stipulate that adjusting ride height requires a hand held tool, just so a team wouldn't try anything "sneaky".

We'll just chalk that up to Vettel's fantastic driving skills. They're of course only fantastic while he's free of pressure. Every other time he is under pressure he reverts to that video mode, and more often than not chokes.

Like I've said, I've seen him win five, perhaps six races from the 2011 season forward. We've seen him cockup more than that, and of course great drivers have races like Brazil of last year. Vettel has no only had the power of Red Bull, but he's also been a pretty damned lucky guy and we know sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

[LewEngBridewell]

German TV is now showing the street parties which are commencing in Heppenheim

[LRW]

Congratulations Sebastian Vettel.

[sagi58]

Auguri!!

to Vettel!!

[What's Burning?]

Congratulations to Vettel and Red Bull for leveraging their strengths and a flawlessly executed season.

[LewEngBridewell]

It's amazing how RBR and Seb have up-ended the formbook in recent seasons.

Had the company decided not to buy the flailing Jaguar team back in 2004, then we would have had Ferrari VS McLaren from 2010 through until 2012 and a close battle between Ferrari and Merc this year.

But full credit to them, RBR have done what Williams, McLaren and Ferrari have all done before them... sustained domination from one year to the next.

[LiamCatterson]

It's amazing how RBR and Seb have up-ended the formbook in recent seasons.

Had the company decided not to buy the flailing Jaguar team back in 2004, then we would have had Ferrari VS McLaren from 2010 through until 2012 and a close battle between Ferrari and Merc this year.

But full credit to them, RBR have done what Williams, McLaren and Ferrari have all done before them... sustained domination from one year to the next.

Alonso - 2010 World Champion
Button - 2011 World Champion
Alonso - 2012 World Champion
Alonso - 2013 World Champion leader

[I_AM_SNAKE]

No, that good of a driver.. his team has been making him No. 1 by sabottaging Mark Webber's races (at leat three this year)... so ALL MY HATE TO YOU that you must have bought the pit lane staff!!!!

CArlos