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Kimi Raikkonen or Sebastian Vettel?

Kimi
18
69%
Seb
8
31%
#376917
The worst thing this year is that Red Bull's sniping at Pirelli and basically forcing them to change the tyres (they did it because of Red Bull constantly moaning that they couldnt use their car effectively on the 13 tyres) ruined the championship - it killed off both Alonso and Raikkonen!
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By racechick
#376918
And Lewis :wink:
By CookinFlat6
#376919
And Lewis :wink:


debatable, overall its possible it brought Merc closer, but it is indisputable it benefited RBR the most

Merc threatened to punch above their weight, but the final Pirellli solution reinforced the 2012 heiracrcy, even Mclaren improved

Complete farce
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By racechick
#376920
Oh it definitely helped red bull. But it killed off the Merc threat as well as the lotus and Ferrari threat. With merc's one lap speed and then their superiority at Silverstone.....they were a threat. Then all the tyres exploded a lot and after that Merc weren't so good.
By CookinFlat6
#376922
re: mnmracer, just to be clear

mnm is not a :loser: just because he has a different opinion, emnm is a :loser: because he claimed that certain opinions were not just opinions but lies, immoral etc etc. The fact that emenm is unable to prove these opinions as lies or immoral is what confirms emenem a :loser:

opinions are interpretations of the facts, accusations of lies and immorality are whats bandied around when :loser: are unable to discredit opinions of others
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By sagi58
#376925
The worst thing this year is that Red Bull's sniping at Pirelli and basically forcing them to change the tyres (they did it because of Red Bull constantly moaning that they couldnt use their car effectively on the 13 tyres) ruined the championship - it killed off both Alonso and Raikkonen!

Totally agree with this comment!!
With each and every point!!
By Hammer278
#376927
re: mnmracer, just to be clear

mnm is not a :loser: just because he has a different opinion, emnm is a :loser: because he claimed that certain opinions were not just opinions but lies, immoral etc etc. The fact that emenm is unable to prove these opinions as lies or immoral is what confirms emenem a :loser:

opinions are interpretations of the facts, accusations of lies and immorality are whats bandied around when :loser: are unable to discredit opinions of others


Image
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By spankyham
#376931
Oh it definitely helped red bull. But it killed off the Merc threat as well as the lotus and Ferrari threat. With merc's one lap speed and then their superiority at Silverstone.....they were a threat. Then all the tyres exploded a lot and after that Merc weren't so good.


Hindsights 20/20 of course, but, in retrospect, Merc had really done most of the work in coming to terms with the tires before they reverted to last years regulation tires. Clearly the big winner was Red Bull, they had not come to terms with the 2013 regs. Changing the rules mid season gave RB a huge boost and nobbled their 2 biggest threats.

Kudos to RB though, their politicking and their ability to get Merc and others to support their push for the mid-season rule change was very effective, and, like it or loathe it, that is a key part of F1.
By Stevie
#376938
The worst thing this year is that Red Bull's sniping at Pirelli and basically forcing them to change the tyres (they did it because of Red Bull constantly moaning that they couldnt use their car effectively on the 13 tyres) ruined the championship - it killed off both Alonso and Raikkonen!


I have to butt in here :D
Almot ALL the teams and drivers were complaining about the tyres - after races like Silverstone, changes HAD to be made. In no way was it just Red Bull.
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By Jabberwocky
#376939
About the tyre changes. The Sky F1 show did a comparison of sauber and force india seasons before and after the tyre change

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
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By spankyham
#376942
The worst thing this year is that Red Bull's sniping at Pirelli and basically forcing them to change the tyres (they did it because of Red Bull constantly moaning that they couldnt use their car effectively on the 13 tyres) ruined the championship - it killed off both Alonso and Raikkonen!


I have to butt in here :D
Almot ALL the teams and drivers were complaining about the tyres - after races like Silverstone, changes HAD to be made. In no way was it just Red Bull.


You are correct, in the end, there was more in favor of changing. But not all. The key was that it was Red Bull who were pushing for the rule change very early on and very vocally. I think Marko made a statement Malaysia time saying they already had a agreement from Pirelli to changes they wanted.

Also there was the matter or what/how to make any adjustments. In the end, the method of change chosen was the optimum for Red Bull and the worst for Ferrari, Lotus and FI. There were other ways they could have addressed this problem without disadvantaging the teams that had built cars suited to the new 2013 regs.
#376943
But the tyres weren't blowing out because they were unsafe, they were blowing out because the teams were mis-using them. Strangely a left rear tyre is designed to be on the left rear of the car NOT the right rear. THIS caused the blowouts therefore all the FIA/Pirelli had to do was ban this tactic and all would have been fine. Infact I believe it was Merc who discovered this tactic at the test in Barcelona.

Ferrari, Lotus and FI, who spent time and money developing their cars to suit the tyres (unlike RB who just said "Our car is being restricted by the tyres and thats why we're losing") and have been unfairly penalised because others thought it would be easier to lobby with Pirelli and the FIA.

There should only be changes when it is unanimous, not when 30% of the field disagree strongly with it. If I was Ferrari/Lotus/FI i'd be asking the FIA for some compensation for the money they wasted developing their car to suit the tyres, only for them to be changed midway through the season when they couldnt test!
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By 1Lemon
#376944
I couldn't agree more Ferrari man!
#376945
But the tyres weren't blowing out because they were unsafe, they were blowing out because the teams were mis-using them. Strangely a left rear tyre is designed to be on the left rear of the car NOT the right rear. THIS caused the blowouts therefore all the FIA/Pirelli had to do was ban this tactic and all would have been fine. Infact I believe it was Merc who discovered this tactic at the test in Barcelona.

You'd be completely wrong on this one, Mercedes was one of the last teams to figure that out. You'd also recall that Massa had two blowouts that race so was Ferrari using them wrong as we'll? We saw those violent delamination explosions a handful to times before Silverstone. Force India saw blowouts as well before Silverstone if I recall correctly.

The tire situation has indeed been crap, but let's not blame Red Bull on this one, they just took advantage of an already bad situation. The issue is this whole artificial degradation philosophy has been a failure for the sport and Bernie's testicles should be cut off. It's not like he's using them for anything. If Ferrari is so concerned about the poor tires now, they should have been more vociferous about the poor tires before the fiasco, the tires were an unsafe bad joke for the sport.

Way off topic now, but it looks like Vettel is not winning this poll, so that's been answered already.
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By spankyham
#376953
The tire situation has indeed been crap, but let's not blame Red Bull on this one ...

No blame to RB for the state of the tires, that is all the work of a spineless tire manufacturer and those that pushed them to make fast degrading rubber

If Ferrari is so concerned about the poor tires now, they should have been more vociferous...

Very true. As I said in a previous post, Red Bull are to be commended for the political sagacity on this. That can be as valuable and creative a tool as any engineering break through. Ferrari were the masters of this until recently. However, I think it is a weakness of SD and the current administration.

Ferrari should have recognised the problem and put forward their own solution - and there were plenty of options that would have aided Ferrari/Lotus/FI that they could have put forward. But they stayed defensive and on the back foot - the inept "prevent" defense.
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