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#376127
Seb was picking up about a half second a lap with 11 laps left. Webber about a 14 second lead. Do the math

This must have been the first time you heard of Pirelli tires and the cliff.
It's precisely this that cost Vettel the win 2 years ago. This time Vettel was prepared and pulled of great laps while saving his tires. Webber simply couldn't do that, which is known to be not one of his strong points.
Last edited by mnmracer on 13 Oct 13, 17:52, edited 1 time in total.
#376130
The three stop was the wrong call, but they didn't try it on Seb, that's for sure. Mark would have done better staying out on the primes with 11 or so laps to go and take his chances, he would have at least been defending for the top spot instead of spending the next five or six laps trying to get to second place.


Had Red Bull left Mark out until lap 30 and 2 stopped him, I honestly believe he would have won as his intention was to undercut Grosjean. By 3 stopping him RB knew they were giving Vettel track position. If a 3 stop was faster Vettel would have been put on it!
#376134
The three stop was the wrong call, but they didn't try it on Seb, that's for sure. Mark would have done better staying out on the primes with 11 or so laps to go and take his chances, he would have at least been defending for the top spot instead of spending the next five or six laps trying to get to second place.


Had Red Bull left Mark out until lap 30 and 2 stopped him, I honestly believe he would have won as his intention was to undercut Grosjean. By 3 stopping him RB knew they were giving Vettel track position. If a 3 stop was faster Vettel would have been put on it!

Webber showed he was unable to keep enough pace in his tires to actually make an undercut on Grosjean. His first attempt gained him a massive... 0.7 second.
#376152
The three stop was the wrong call, but they didn't try it on Seb, that's for sure. Mark would have done better staying out on the primes with 11 or so laps to go and take his chances, he would have at least been defending for the top spot instead of spending the next five or six laps trying to get to second place.


Had Red Bull left Mark out until lap 30 and 2 stopped him, I honestly believe he would have won as his intention was to undercut Grosjean. By 3 stopping him RB knew they were giving Vettel track position. If a 3 stop was faster Vettel would have been put on it!

Webber showed he was unable to keep enough pace in his tires to actually make an undercut on Grosjean. His first attempt gained him a massive... 0.7 second.


Not worth arguing with you on it, you're clearly going to argue that Vettel was quicker the whole race even though he never got near to passing Webber.

Let's just agree to disagree, shall we?
#376155
The three stop was the wrong call, but they didn't try it on Seb, that's for sure. Mark would have done better staying out on the primes with 11 or so laps to go and take his chances, he would have at least been defending for the top spot instead of spending the next five or six laps trying to get to second place.


Had Red Bull left Mark out until lap 30 and 2 stopped him, I honestly believe he would have won as his intention was to undercut Grosjean. By 3 stopping him RB knew they were giving Vettel track position. If a 3 stop was faster Vettel would have been put on it!

Webber showed he was unable to keep enough pace in his tires to actually make an undercut on Grosjean. His first attempt gained him a massive... 0.7 second.


Not worth arguing with you on it, you're clearly going to argue that Vettel was quicker the whole race even though he never got near to passing Webber.

Let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

Fact is that Vettel was asked to keep 2 - 3 seconds distance, which he did.
Fact is that the moment Vettel was asked to push, he pushed Grosjean harder than Webber was able to.
Fact is that he was doing that with older tires than Webber had when he was unable to push Grosjean.
Fact is that Vettel did significantly better overtaking Grosjean than Webber.

We can agree to disagree when you are willing to acknowledge these facts, and then make a reasonable case.
Saying "let's agree to disagree" at this point is nothing more than an indication that you are only willing to form your opinion based on how you want the outcome to be, not based on factual data.
#376156
Fact: Sebs car is different to webbers, sounds different, has better traction out of slow corners and can pull a 2 second gap at will

Fact: Webber matched Seb in 2010 when the cars sounded the same,

Fact: Sebs race craft is inferior to Lewis and Alonso
#376160
...We can agree to disagree when you are willing to acknowledge these facts, and then make a reasonable case.
Saying "let's agree to disagree" at this point is nothing more than an indication that you are only willing to form your opinion based on how you want the outcome to be, not based on factual data.


Actually, when people agree to disagree, they stop the discussion!!
Because all opinions are valid, regardless what they are based upon,
it would seem you just need to have the last word. :P
#376163
...We can agree to disagree when you are willing to acknowledge these facts, and then make a reasonable case.
Saying "let's agree to disagree" at this point is nothing more than an indication that you are only willing to form your opinion based on how you want the outcome to be, not based on factual data.


Actually, when people agree to disagree, they stop the discussion!!
Because all opinions are valid, regardless what they are based upon,
it would seem you just need to have the last word. :P

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

So if I tell you it is my opinion that Fernando Alonso won the 2013 Japanese Grand Prix, you will accept it as a valid opinion?
#376164
All opinions are opinions I agree. All opinions however are not valid, a half hour browsing this or any other forum should be proof enough of that. :)
#376175
The three stop was the wrong call, but they didn't try it on Seb, that's for sure. Mark would have done better staying out on the primes with 11 or so laps to go and take his chances, he would have at least been defending for the top spot instead of spending the next five or six laps trying to get to second place.


Had Red Bull left Mark out until lap 30 and 2 stopped him, I honestly believe he would have won as his intention was to undercut Grosjean. By 3 stopping him RB knew they were giving Vettel track position. If a 3 stop was faster Vettel would have been put on it!

Webber showed he was unable to keep enough pace in his tires to actually make an undercut on Grosjean. His first attempt gained him a massive... 0.7 second.


Not worth arguing with you on it, you're clearly going to argue that Vettel was quicker the whole race even though he never got near to passing Webber.

Let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

Fact is that Vettel was asked to keep 2 - 3 seconds distance, which he did.
Fact is that the moment Vettel was asked to push, he pushed Grosjean harder than Webber was able to.
Fact is that he was doing that with older tires than Webber had when he was unable to push Grosjean.
Fact is that Vettel did significantly better overtaking Grosjean than Webber.

We can agree to disagree when you are willing to acknowledge these facts, and then make a reasonable case.
Saying "let's agree to disagree" at this point is nothing more than an indication that you are only willing to form your opinion based on how you want the outcome to be, not based on factual data.


FACT - Webber beat Vettel in Qualifying
FACT - When Webber pitted he was ahead of Vettel
FACT - Webber was also told to keep the same gap
FACT - A 3 stop was 6 seconds slower than a 2, how many seconds did Vettel win by?

And also, the reason I said shall we agree to disagree is I really dont want to have a 3 page argument about it - ive witnessed far too many recently and none have ended amicably!

If you dont want to accept that i'm entitled to an opinion that's up to you, but please dont keep stating that youre opinion is right based on a few selective facts - FACT is we dont know what would have happened because it didnt happen, all we can do is speculate using our perceptions and say what we think would have happened. I think had Webber stayed out he would have won!
#376176
...We can agree to disagree when you are willing to acknowledge these facts, and then make a reasonable case.
Saying "let's agree to disagree" at this point is nothing more than an indication that you are only willing to form your opinion based on how you want the outcome to be, not based on factual data.


Actually, when people agree to disagree, they stop the discussion!!
Because all opinions are valid, regardless what they are based upon,
it would seem you just need to have the last word. :P

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

So if I tell you it is my opinion that Fernando Alonso won the 2013 Japanese Grand Prix, you will accept it as a valid opinion?


Fernando Alonso has won the 2013 Japanese GP isnt an opinion, thats stating a fact. Saying that Fernando Alonso had the quickest car in free air and could have won is an opinion.
#376183
Noun 1. dumbass - a stupid persondumbass - a stupid person; these words are used to express a low opinion of someone's intelligence
blockhead, bonehead, dunce, dunderhead, duck, hammerhead, knucklehead, loggerhead, lunkhead, muttonhead, numskull, shithead
dolt, dullard, pillock, poor fish, pudden-head, pudding head, stupe, stupid, stupid person - a person who is not very bright; a person unable to make qualitative appraisals, a person wholly dependent on instruction or direction by quantifiable facts
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