FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[mnmracer]

In the past 6 months and 19 days ago, a large part of the Formula One community as a whole, Forumula1 not excluded, we were taught that ignoring team-orders is wrong, arrogant, and deserving of booing.

Today it was Felipe Massa who committed this inexcusable horrific sin. So, now what oh morally high-grounded ones? Boo him at the next races? Spam every single topic about Massa what an aweful human being he is? How are we going to let Massa know that no one is bigger than the team?

To help everyone in doing justice, let me help you with some free-to-use lines:

• Massa thought he was bigger than the team and its insignificant orders.
• Massa chose to backstab his team openly and satisfy his own ego.
• Massa is a spoiled brat.
• Massa ignored the team. Got zero respect for him after that.
• Massa was a spoiled little twat who disobayed his team and put his team in danger of losing points.
• Ferrari were playing fair there but Massa wasn't. He's gone down in my estimation today.
• Massa's win at all costs attitude has lowered my opinion of him significantly.

[CookinFlat6]

Massa is not the team member made number one, given the better wing, better strategies, car designed around him,

yet feels the need to cheat his downtrodden teammate for ze extra win to help ze stats

also Massa never sticks a finger up to help people remember that his car is number 1

[mnmracer]

Massa is not the team member made number one, given the better wing, better strategies, car designed around him,

yet feels the need to cheat his downtrodden teammate for ze extra win to help ze stats

also Massa never sticks a finger up to help people remember that his car is number 1

truly fantastic off-topic post
now that you've played your broken record again, please back on-topic, on what we have been taught to have been the horrible behavior of ignoring team-orders.

[CookinFlat6]

and there is proof that Massa ignored team orders like the 'multi 21' order?

Link or other factual proof please

Alonso didnt say there was an order, who has said this?

"No. Not really," said Alonso, when asked if he was unhappy. "We cannot make a big thing about this.

"But I was happy today. It was unfortunate for the race the drive through and what has happened in the race. It was not over any instruction, he [Alonso] overtook me on the track."

[What's Burning?]

Context is important. You don't factor that into this contrived comparison. What you're doing is grasping at straws to justify and bash us with a point of view that has been rehashed enough already don't you think?

Vettel didn't get booed today because the Japanese fans are very respectful, but they didn't cheer for the guy the way they cheered for Webber and Grosjean's podium interviews.

Context is important.

[LRW]

The one man crusade to rid the world of all moral injustices continues.......

[Ferrari man 009]

There are is one big difference - Vettel disobeying team orders cost Webber the win, as well as being immorral. Today, Alonso would have been 4th even had Massa let him through - the incident didnt make one difference.

Personally I have sympathy with Massa - he has helped Alonso for 3 years and now is being booted out for the driver he beat for 2 consecutive seasons and is now fighting for his career!

Vettel on the other hand acted like a spolied child. I had actually got over the move before China, but Vettel's arrogant (there isnt any other way of describing it) comments about it after pretending he was sorry was in my opinion far worse than the actual disobeying of the team order!

If Vettel had any morals, he would have pulled over in Japan, handed Webber the win and said he was sorry for Malaysia - had he done that I think he would have gained respect for it. Even when Schumacher benefitted from a team order (albeit not one he agreed with, was JT/RB's decision) - he at least repaid the points to Barrichello later that season!

[racechick]

Good post Ferrari Man .
To try to draw comparisons between Massa and Vettel is ludicrous, they are completely different animals. Though superficially, similarities may be drawn between Vettel's ignoring of a team order (costing his team mate a race win) and Massa's possible ignoring off a team order to let Alonso past; the motives, emotions and background leading to the two events could not be more dis-similar. Surely that doesn't need explaining further?

I'm not saying Vettel should have paid Webber back for what he took at Malaysia as Ferrari man suggested.....let me say that up front.....but had he decided to do so, I would hazard a guess that the booing would stop. Ye pays your money........Ye make your bed etc. etc.

[What's Burning?]

sometimes the decisions we make get us into difficult situations.


and then things can get complicated.

[CookinFlat6]

[Jabberwocky]

Well played WB

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

[operaman]

Never been a fan of Felipe, although I think his role in the "Team Orders Affair" was far more despicable than anything he did today.

[mnmracer]

Good old double standards. Never fail to apply them, right boys

[stonemonkey]

If Alonso wins the WDC by 2 or less points then I'll have to agree that Massa's arrogance could've easily thrown that away.

[Hammer278]

Good old double standards. Never fail to apply them, right boys

No, good old common sense which you're lacking.

Scenario 1: Two drivers told to HOLD positions and save engines till the end, no more racing, no more threats, save the 1-2. Driver 1 ignores the call and steals the win which Driver 2 had worked for the entire weekend.

Scenario 2: Two drivers racing each other with threats all around them and the results are far from set in stone. Both cars have everything to gain, Driver 2 told to move over for Driver 1....now, Driver 2 had also worked his ar$e of to get himself ahead of Driver 1 through merit, and this time Driver 2 ignores the call and continues what should be natural in this case - racing his teammate. I see no one stealing achievements of another here, no one betraying the trust of his teammate, no one being a right pr!ck given no.1 preference by the team and still ignoring them by backstabbing a teammate who's guard/engines turned down.

If you can't see why Scenario 1 is completely despicable compared to Scenario 2........like I said, stick to numbers. Thinking qualitatively is just not for you.