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[Hammer278]

I have now watched my last F1 race, I do not see the point of watching a race to see who comes second. I also think Alonso is a better driver than Vettle as he has gained points with a car not as fast as Vettles and won races. It is getting boring watching the same driver on pole and then winning. There needs to be a more open championship and more competition.

Mate, F1 has been like this many times before. It's not rare for a team to dominate like RBR. They're not the first, and they're certainly not the last. Ferrari, McLaren and Williams have all had periods of similar domination, as have teams like Alfa Romeo back in the early 50s.

It must be remembered that this is a TEAM SPORT. RBR, and in particular Seb, is simply doing a better job than the rest.

In 1952, Alberto Ascari led for 304 consecutive laps. 5 races (out of 8 ) that no other driver led a single lap than Alberto Ascari in his Ferrari.
In 1988, Ayrton Senna led for 264 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
In 1989, Ayrton Senna led for 237 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
Even dear Kimi, in 2005, led lap after lap after lap after lap for 4 races, only broken up by a last lap tire faillure.

And yet, none of these drivers were booed in nearly every circuit of the calendar.....I think someone should do a study on this and find out why.

[1Lemon]

I have now watched my last F1 race, I do not see the point of watching a race to see who comes second. I also think Alonso is a better driver than Vettle as he has gained points with a car not as fast as Vettles and won races. It is getting boring watching the same driver on pole and then winning. There needs to be a more open championship and more competition.

Mate, F1 has been like this many times before. It's not rare for a team to dominate like RBR. They're not the first, and they're certainly not the last. Ferrari, McLaren and Williams have all had periods of similar domination, as have teams like Alfa Romeo back in the early 50s.

It must be remembered that this is a TEAM SPORT. RBR, and in particular Seb, is simply doing a better job than the rest.

In 1952, Alberto Ascari led for 304 consecutive laps. 5 races (out of 8 ) that no other driver led a single lap than Alberto Ascari in his Ferrari.
In 1988, Ayrton Senna led for 264 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
In 1989, Ayrton Senna led for 237 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
Even dear Kimi, in 2005, led lap after lap after lap after lap for 4 races, only broken up by a last lap tire faillure.

See we can't really do that calculation with modern F1, due to all the pitting.

[mnmracer]

I have now watched my last F1 race, I do not see the point of watching a race to see who comes second. I also think Alonso is a better driver than Vettle as he has gained points with a car not as fast as Vettles and won races. It is getting boring watching the same driver on pole and then winning. There needs to be a more open championship and more competition.

Mate, F1 has been like this many times before. It's not rare for a team to dominate like RBR. They're not the first, and they're certainly not the last. Ferrari, McLaren and Williams have all had periods of similar domination, as have teams like Alfa Romeo back in the early 50s.

It must be remembered that this is a TEAM SPORT. RBR, and in particular Seb, is simply doing a better job than the rest.

In 1952, Alberto Ascari led for 304 consecutive laps. 5 races (out of 8 ) that no other driver led a single lap than Alberto Ascari in his Ferrari.
In 1988, Ayrton Senna led for 264 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
In 1989, Ayrton Senna led for 237 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
Even dear Kimi, in 2005, led lap after lap after lap after lap for 4 races, only broken up by a last lap tire faillure.

And yet, none of these drivers were booed in nearly every circuit of the calendar.....I think someone should do a study on this and find out why.

Unfortunately those that ride the boo bus generally lack argumentative skills.

[mnmracer]

I have now watched my last F1 race, I do not see the point of watching a race to see who comes second. I also think Alonso is a better driver than Vettle as he has gained points with a car not as fast as Vettles and won races. It is getting boring watching the same driver on pole and then winning. There needs to be a more open championship and more competition.

Mate, F1 has been like this many times before. It's not rare for a team to dominate like RBR. They're not the first, and they're certainly not the last. Ferrari, McLaren and Williams have all had periods of similar domination, as have teams like Alfa Romeo back in the early 50s.

It must be remembered that this is a TEAM SPORT. RBR, and in particular Seb, is simply doing a better job than the rest.

In 1952, Alberto Ascari led for 304 consecutive laps. 5 races (out of 8 ) that no other driver led a single lap than Alberto Ascari in his Ferrari.
In 1988, Ayrton Senna led for 264 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
In 1989, Ayrton Senna led for 237 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
Even dear Kimi, in 2005, led lap after lap after lap after lap for 4 races, only broken up by a last lap tire faillure.

See we can't really do that calculation with modern F1, due to all the pitting.

Doesn't mean that drivers leading race after race hasn't happened recently.

[1Lemon]

I have now watched my last F1 race, I do not see the point of watching a race to see who comes second. I also think Alonso is a better driver than Vettle as he has gained points with a car not as fast as Vettles and won races. It is getting boring watching the same driver on pole and then winning. There needs to be a more open championship and more competition.

Mate, F1 has been like this many times before. It's not rare for a team to dominate like RBR. They're not the first, and they're certainly not the last. Ferrari, McLaren and Williams have all had periods of similar domination, as have teams like Alfa Romeo back in the early 50s.

It must be remembered that this is a TEAM SPORT. RBR, and in particular Seb, is simply doing a better job than the rest.

In 1952, Alberto Ascari led for 304 consecutive laps. 5 races (out of 8 ) that no other driver led a single lap than Alberto Ascari in his Ferrari.
In 1988, Ayrton Senna led for 264 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
In 1989, Ayrton Senna led for 237 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
Even dear Kimi, in 2005, led lap after lap after lap after lap for 4 races, only broken up by a last lap tire faillure.

See we can't really do that calculation with modern F1, due to all the pitting.

Doesn't mean that drivers leading race after race hasn't happened recently.

No but consecutive laps led are going to be skewed, look at Korea for example, for all intents and purposes he lead the whole race, but after he pitted for 3 or so laps Webber led the race IIRC until he then pitted.

[mnmracer]

I have now watched my last F1 race, I do not see the point of watching a race to see who comes second. I also think Alonso is a better driver than Vettle as he has gained points with a car not as fast as Vettles and won races. It is getting boring watching the same driver on pole and then winning. There needs to be a more open championship and more competition.

Mate, F1 has been like this many times before. It's not rare for a team to dominate like RBR. They're not the first, and they're certainly not the last. Ferrari, McLaren and Williams have all had periods of similar domination, as have teams like Alfa Romeo back in the early 50s.

It must be remembered that this is a TEAM SPORT. RBR, and in particular Seb, is simply doing a better job than the rest.

In 1952, Alberto Ascari led for 304 consecutive laps. 5 races (out of 8 ) that no other driver led a single lap than Alberto Ascari in his Ferrari.
In 1988, Ayrton Senna led for 264 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
In 1989, Ayrton Senna led for 237 consecutive laps. 4 races (and the start of a 5th) that no other driver led a single lap than Ayrton Senna in his McLaren.
Even dear Kimi, in 2005, led lap after lap after lap after lap for 4 races, only broken up by a last lap tire faillure.

See we can't really do that calculation with modern F1, due to all the pitting.

Doesn't mean that drivers leading race after race hasn't happened recently.

No but consecutive laps led are going to be skewed, look at Korea for example, for all intents and purposes he lead the whole race, but after he pitted for 3 or so laps Webber led the race IIRC until he then pitted.

Webber pitted the lap after Vettel. He led the race from approximately 100 meters after the finishing line, until 100 meters before the finishing line. Vettel crossed the finish line first on all laps, which is how 'laps led' have been counted since at least May 13th, 1950.

[CookinFlat6]

For true sports fans whats boring is the nature of the Red Bull Vettel Webber Horner affair.
Its a triumph of quantitative over qualitative and its only those on the outskirts of humanity that like a sport where success comes with flexi wings that pass tests, and torque control that moderates loss of traction.

Put simply most normal people enjoy watching competition, where you have competitors. Different story to when you have no competition because someone has a magic button and flaunts it then expects, nay, demands to be given the same respect as given to those with WDC teammates who win a WDC by a point or two.

No matter how many WDCS Seb gets or MS had, they will only ever have respect from fans who are interested in the results and stats more than th human competition element, the ones who would be happy to have a Guinness world record for skipping over the most cracks in the pavement, I'm sure you get the picture. The same type who would be happy for every boxing match to end after one punch because the stats are sooo exciting

Its when they try shove this falseness down our throats that it gets annoying, when Red Bull or Seb try pretend that Webber has equal chance or the same car even, thats when the boos get louder. Its just plain boring and thick minded.
Like Webbers car sounds diferent to Sebs and he has loads of Kers issues and launch issues yet does not have the same traction out the corners

At least on this forum have a few who can see between stats that dont have a footnote of flexy wings that visibly broke the rules or numerous Red Bull breaches of the rules (the ones they got caught at). Qualitative is what fans like not just quantitative results. Webber matched and almost beat Seb in 2010, then things changed at the team. Yet we are meant to think Seb is much better than Webber and that Webber is a great and therefore Seb should gt the respect Senna got for beating Prost, or Lewis, Alonso. Horner is a joker

Talking about jokers, take a look at this page of this thread over at our sister forum Autosport, see if you can spot the pattern

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/18953 ... ull/page-3

[mnmracer]

For true sports fans whats boring is the nature of the Red Bull Vettel Webber Horner affair.
Its a triumph of quantitative over qualitative and its only those on the outskirts of humanity that like a sport where success comes with flexi wings that pass tests, and torque control that moderates loss of traction.

Anyone claiming that only one team is stretching the rules, can not seriously claim to be a true fan of the sport, or is either extremely delusional and in denial to claim so.
Claiming Schumacher or Vettel don't receive respect from anyone other than stat-happy fans, purposely ignoring the many drivers, teambosses and pundits who have every bit of respect for them, is even more delusional.

[CookinFlat6]

Not as much respect as for truly great drivers who beat quality teammates. According to polled team bosses over the last 4 years Alonso is better than Vettel despite less statistical success, why? Because they are intelligent human beings who can read between the lines

Sebs Red Bull has a couple of seconds advantage and has been the best car since 2009, yet Seb gets matched by Webber on the few occasions that the magic bullet is removed or like in 2010 when the teammates had equal opportunity

Flexing front wings allow you to corner faster, Red Bull had this and not the others, therefore Red Bull had an advantage, a magic button over the others, therefore a good driver in a Red Bull will beat great drivers in lesser cars

The team bosses knew this when they voted

Maybe Ricciardo will elevate Sebs reputation, maybe he is a bigger challenge than Kimi

Let's see if his car sounds the same, maybe the boos against fake competition will stop

[mnmracer]

Not as much respect as for truly great drivers who beat quality teammates. According to polled team bosses over the last 4 years Alonso is better than Vettel despite less statistical success, why? Because they are intelligent human beings who can read between the lines

It's funny that you mention, and seem to value, the team bosses opinion, because they do not in any way, shape or form reflect your own.
Then again, you seem to have trouble again with not trying to deceive others with false statements. Those "team bosses [that] over the last 4 years [say] Alonso is better than Vettel" actually voted Alonso and Vettel better over the other equally.

You know that driver you claim receives no respect?
He was voted driver of the year by the team bosses in 2009 and 2011, over Alonso.
You know that driver you claim receives no respect?
He was voted 2nd best driver of the year by the team bosses in 2010 and 2012, over Hamilton, Button, Kimi, etc.

The team bosses knew this when they voted

So tell me, what did the team bosses know when they voted Vettel a better driver than Alonso twice in four years?

You know that driver you claim receives no respect?
He will receive praise from drivers, ex-champions, and team bosses left and right, no matter how much you try to deceive others with false statements.

[CookinFlat6]

He wasnt voted best each year despite winning the wdc, thats the point, Alonso didnt win since 2010 yet was voted higheron balance, therefore the stats (quantitative) are not everything to the bosses, they have brains that figure out the qualitative

You're not making any point. You're just making a statement that is not supported by the facts available, without providing facts to support your claim.

If your belief of something factual is based on opinion, you should probably reconsider what the hell you're doing.
Opinions are there to fill the gaps left by facts, not to replace them.

Please do not spread lies. It's despicable.

[mnmracer]

He wasnt voted best each year despite winning the wdc, thats the point, Alonso didnt win yet was voted higher, therefore the stats (quantitative) are not everything to the bosses, they have brains that figure out the qualitative.

Do you really have so little respect for this forum that you want to go down this road again?
You claim "according to polled team bosses over the last 4 years Alonso is better than Vettel". That claim is false.

And you failed to answer my question.
Since you believe the team bosses "have brains that figure out the qualitative", how do you think they used their brains to figure out that "the qualitative" of Vettel was better than Alonso in 2 years?

[CookinFlat6]

Erm because seb won the WDC, to vote someone else as better means they have less respect for the champion, I.e it was a function of the best car and Alonso was better despite a worse car
It's not rocket science now is it?
It's like button winning 2009 with the dd, even the dumbest bosses didn't believe he was the best

No respect cos the car was the star

Just like Seb according to the bosses in how many years? Half?

Ouch

[mnmracer]

Erm because seb won the WDC, to vote someone else as better means they have less respect for the champion

Please do not put words into the team bosses mouth that they have not spoken.

No respect cos the car was the star

So being considered 2nd best is considered no respect in your book?

Must have hurt for Alonso to be demoted to 3rd best driver in 2011 than
Or, to quote you: ouch.

[CookinFlat6]

Just to be clear and to demonstrate the name calling and abuse towards anyone able to make qualitative appraisals from those fixated on the quantitative (with its ognored distortions)

Even when Seb wins the WDC the team bosses did not consider him best, therefore they must take on board the car advantage from flexi wings and other clear performance advantages

And even when they voted him best, the car advantage would be a factor, therefore when compared to a driver who bests top quality teammates the car factor is finally disregarded and true respect (like towards Alonso) is forthcoming with no consideration of a car with an unknown advantage at least 2 seconds and maybe even 4

But maybe it's a coincidence that seb gets booed each race and eminem finds dispicable liars who don't blindly swoon over idiotic 4 sec 'pull a gap at will' stats on every forum. They are all liars and morality challenged because they don't accept the facts that Seb is much much better than Webber