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[mnmracer]

I'm a world champion making 25 million a year, woe is me for I feel unloved.

So you are the type of person who treats people differently depending on their social status?
Classy.

Maybe that's why we seem to have such a misunderstanding between us. I guess I'm just different. My morals don't change depending on whether I'm talking to a hobo or a millionaire. I believe in common decency, regardless of social status.

So you're claiming I've got no morals because you're butt hurt that I don't like a driver you swoon over? Get real dude.

I take it you're not really so simplistic as implying it's all about "I do/don't like this driver".
Common decency has nothing to do with Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton or god knows who.
If you have none, fine, so be it, but I do and if it is apparently to be shamed that I stand up for common decency, for not discriminating a person based on his pay-check, then shame me, but I won't sleep any less over your regards to morals.

[mnmracer]

Just a question, why is this thread even here....shouldn't it be in the 'That's Driver'thread?

Good Point. I wonder if the mods would consider merging the posts with the regular Vettel thread?

"cross-season hat-tricks"
It's a stats-thread that's been derailed.

[Hammer278]

Stats thread...about Vettel that nobody gives a sh*t about except for 2...maybe 3 people here.

Why not I start a stat thread on Hamilton right now.....

Start of with let's say...
- Only driver to win a race in every year he's competed in the F1 Championship
- Only driver to beat a 2X WDC in his rookie year (yes, beat: his name is over Alonso in the standings)
.....yadayadaya

And back we are at square 1. Get the gist?

[mnmracer]

Stats thread...about Vettel

and all the others mentioned.
If you can't appreciate history, that's not my fault. No one forces you to come and read it.

nobody gives a sh*t about except for 2...maybe 3 people here.

I'm glad you're here to speak for everyone.

[What's Burning?]

WB, RC and some others try to make out Hamilton ans an 'exceptional driver' and Vettel not as one. What excatly is an exceptional driver? Most of it is based on your personal conjecture - to which you have every right to - but that does not make it the the truth. You might like to think so but repeated assertions to the effect do not make such beliefs fact. Just because you like someone, you cannot claim that he is better than the next man even though that next man has achieved better results.

Briefly on Hamilton since he was 'involved' in this arguement, those who like him have their right to do so. But I would like so say that I personally find all his public comments and all this "heart on his sleeve" stuff extremely cloying and artificial. It takes a certain amount of mental toughness to become an F1 driver and Hamilton is no exception; I frankly doubt if he himslef believes half the things he says (or advised to say) in public.

Getting back to Vettel, why should he be the one who has to prove himself to you people or anyone else? By contrast, have Hamilton, Alonso or any ofhte others who WB loftily claims could have won as many races in the Red Bull, proved it themselves doing just that? Until they do that the other side of the arguement remains as falt and baseless as conjectures about what Vettel could have achieved outside the Red Bull. The internal politics and team change shenanigans do not matter - the fans have no control over those things.

Hamilton had a relatively below par car in 2009 and being a good driver he won a couple of races but could get nowhere near the championship. Vettel had a below par car for the first half of 2012 but managed to win the WDC in it. I am NOT comparing the relative merits of those cars but merely using them as examples to illustrate that you cannot dismiss such statistics out of hand just because they do not support your belief.

Vettel is doing a good job with the tools that he has been given and that is all he can do. He does not go around claiming that he is better than any of his contemporaries but sticks to the job at hand and usually does well - and has the results to show for it. Perhaps if some other drivers stop moaning about what they could have achieved if they had been driving the Red Bull and concentrate on what they have at hand, they might achieve better results themselves.

RC claims that Vettel went "crying to Marko". Did some little bird tell her that or does she have any evidence of that event?

The entire platform of arguement of those who do not like Vettel is based on discrediting his genuine, on-table achievements thus far and hypothesising what Hamilton, Alonso or someone else could have achieved in a car that they have not driven so far. That kind of position is completely illogical.

PS: Why has this thread gone to discuss irrelevant things like social status, child bullying etc? Has nothing to do with F1 racing.

I know you like Vettel, but his greatness has clouded your judgement to think he won the 2009 WDC as well.

[Zekenwolf]

WB, RC and some others try to make out Hamilton ans an 'exceptional driver' and Vettel not as one. What excatly is an exceptional driver? Most of it is based on your personal conjecture - to which you have every right to - but that does not make it the the truth. You might like to think so but repeated assertions to the effect do not make such beliefs fact. Just because you like someone, you cannot claim that he is better than the next man even though that next man has achieved better results.

Briefly on Hamilton since he was 'involved' in this arguement, those who like him have their right to do so. But I would like so say that I personally find all his public comments and all this "heart on his sleeve" stuff extremely cloying and artificial. It takes a certain amount of mental toughness to become an F1 driver and Hamilton is no exception; I frankly doubt if he himslef believes half the things he says (or advised to say) in public.

Getting back to Vettel, why should he be the one who has to prove himself to you people or anyone else? By contrast, have Hamilton, Alonso or any ofhte others who WB loftily claims could have won as many races in the Red Bull, proved it themselves doing just that? Until they do that the other side of the arguement remains as falt and baseless as conjectures about what Vettel could have achieved outside the Red Bull. The internal politics and team change shenanigans do not matter - the fans have no control over those things.

Hamilton had a relatively below par car in 2009 and being a good driver he won a couple of races but could get nowhere near the championship. Vettel had a below par car for the first half of 2012 but managed to win the WDC in it. I am NOT comparing the relative merits of those cars but merely using them as examples to illustrate that you cannot dismiss such statistics out of hand just because they do not support your belief.

Vettel is doing a good job with the tools that he has been given and that is all he can do. He does not go around claiming that he is better than any of his contemporaries but sticks to the job at hand and usually does well - and has the results to show for it. Perhaps if some other drivers stop moaning about what they could have achieved if they had been driving the Red Bull and concentrate on what they have at hand, they might achieve better results themselves.

RC claims that Vettel went "crying to Marko". Did some little bird tell her that or does she have any evidence of that event?

The entire platform of arguement of those who do not like Vettel is based on discrediting his genuine, on-table achievements thus far and hypothesising what Hamilton, Alonso or someone else could have achieved in a car that they have not driven so far. That kind of position is completely illogical.

PS: Why has this thread gone to discuss irrelevant things like social status, child bullying etc? Has nothing to do with F1 racing.

I know you like Vettel, but his greatness has clouded your judgement to think he won the 2009 WDC as well.

No sir. Please read my post carefully. I said Hamilton had a below-par car in 2009 and got nowhere near the WDC - perfectly true. I never implied that Vettel won the championship that year and am fully aware that Button did. I have clearly referred to Vettel car in 2012 as being below par in the first half of the season, at a time in which the Mclarens were easily the best on the field.

[Hammer278]

Could you please be fair in your comparisons? The cars are not the only things which matter in this sport, as much as strategy, pitstops, team efficiency, etc.

If you watched the 2012 season, you'd be perfectly aware of how many f**k ups McLaren had with their strategy and pitstops...you seem to be an intelligent guy who is very observant, so why try and make Hamilton look like 2nd class when you're aware that he fell short many times in the first half not due to his own doing (undoing), but his team screwups? Also, the McLaren was in NO WAY the stronger of the two teams for the entire first half....they had a strong car for the first 3-4 races max, before Redbull were up there as well. And then came Silverstone when they became 3rd or 4th best, somehow as only Mclaren can manage.

It's when you try and sift things under the carpet when your posts lose credibility....Vettel did what he could do in 2012 also thanks to a highly efficient team effort. Lewis had to deal with McLarens stupid muck ups and not to mention a team which was heavily involved in finding out how to get his lame duck of a teammate up to speed for most of those races. Vettel meanwhile, had the luxury of a very smart management which backed the right driver and gave him all he needed to succeed. And I'm sure you're aware of all these facts.

[1Lemon]

Stats thread...about Vettel that nobody gives a sh*t about except for 2...maybe 3 people here.

Why not I start a stat thread on Hamilton right now.....

Start of with let's say...
- Only driver to win a race in every year he's competed in the F1 Championship
- Only driver to beat a 2X WDC in his rookie year (yes, beat: his name is over Alonso in the standings)
.....yadayadaya

And back we are at square 1. Get the gist?

Ok so we can only talk about Hamilton on this forum? We aren't allowed to talk about any other driver because you don't like them/don't care? Sometimes the things said on this forum to fans of other drivers are ridiculous!

Should I stop supporting Paul Di Resta because the majority of this forum don't like him/haven't gauged an opinion of him yet, same with Bottas? Sometimes this forum seems like a Hamiltion fan forum, and if you say even the slightest thing against Lewis you are crushed by a tonne of bricks. This is a thread about Vettel, and his championship stats which are mighty impressive, even if he did have the best car on the field his stats for his short career are frankly amazing, yeah Hamilton has some amazing stats too but let's not aggressively bring these up in a thread about Hamilton.

For the record before I'm beat down with the fury of a thousand Hamilton fans I am an equal fan of Hamilton and Vettel, like them both as people and respect them as drivers but that's for another thread...

[Hammer278]

Oh brother....the point is if people want to talk about Vettel and his statistics, there's another whole page custom made for this kind of sh*t. That's my point...when did I say we shouldn't speak of Vettel just because he has almost no fans? Quit twisting my words.

[1Lemon]

Oh brother....the point is if people want to talk about Vettel and his statistics, there's another whole page custom made for this kind of sh*t. That's my point...when did I say we shouldn't speak of Vettel just because he has almost no fans? Quit twisting my words.

But this IS a page to talk about Vettel and his stats, it's called "Three is a charm for Vettel, and cross-season hat-tricks"

So I don't see the problem talking about Vettel here, and if you don't want to talk about him (Or any other driver with championship hat-tricks for that matter) then why come on here and have a go at the Vettel fans for supporting Vettel and not Hamilton?

[Zekenwolf]

Could you please be fair in your comparisons? The cars are not the only things which matter in this sport, as much as strategy, pitstops, team efficiency, etc.

Please read that paragraph again. I clearly said that I was NOT comparing the two cars or situations but using them as examples to demonstarte the outcomes. That's all.

[Hammer278]

Could you please be fair in your comparisons? The cars are not the only things which matter in this sport, as much as strategy, pitstops, team efficiency, etc.

Please read that paragraph again. I clearly said that I was NOT comparing the two cars or situations but using them as examples to demonstarte the outcomes. That's all.

How can you use only certain variables (leaving others out) to demonstrate an outcome? Pointless exercise isn't it? That's the problem with stats, you can just throw numbers out there whichever way you want and it means almost nothing.

[Jabberwocky]

Hammer contrary to your belief there is more to Formula 1 than Lewis Hamilton. This Forum is about Formula 1... all of it!

Personally I enjoy reading Mr Racers stats threads, if you don't then don't read them.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4

[racechick]

WB, RC and some others try to make out Hamilton ans an 'exceptional driver' and Vettel not as one. What excatly is an exceptional driver?.

Let me stop you right there and throw the question right back to you. Since it was YOU who said Hamilton was a good driver but not exceptional. I was merely taking you words and insertin g Vettel instead of Hamilton. You see if you've kept abreast of my views I've always maintained there are three outstanding drivers on the grid with a couple more knocking at the door. How those three are ranked depend on fans values and personal preferences, it's subjective not objective. But you seem incensed that Vettel is not seen by all as the superior driver.

On the crying to Marco issue, I saw it on television right after Vettel got back to the pit wall after taking Webber out and doing the cuckoo sign.

On the question of bullying I have no idea whether Vettel was bullied. Hamilton certainly was and has said so in his autobiography. He learnt karate to combat it, achieved black belt status and was no longer bullied. He dealt with it.

[What's Burning?]

Thread derailed, but how much conversation was there to be had on the stats, so meh. Can we at least get back to the booing of Vettel?

Apologies for my bad reading ZW, that's what I get for multitasking. I'm sure you can go back and read some comments I posted last year about Vettel really having fought well and earned his 2012 title. See, some people aren't blinded and can acknowledge when something is deserved, not everyone can do it. You yourself have mentioned how much Hamilton has matured, yet you still dislike the guy, fair enough and I'm glad we're able to have a conversation about it. It's why the forum exist, for that difference of opinion.

I shovel the snow off the driveway of my octogenarian neighbor, I'm sure someone on the forum would say I've got no morals. Making it easier for an old guy to drive when he's got no business going out.

I don't see how my being a fan of some guy or another is a reflection of my morality. So I believe you're missing the point mnmracer if what you're calling me out on is hatin' the guy because he's successful. I've provided far clearer reasons why I dislike him, but it's not his driving or his money, it's the sore loser and sore winner attitude he exudes and the fanatical supporters Vettel seems to attract that can't see the forest for the trees, and attack other fans for having the same blindness for the drivers they support, whether it be Alonso, or Hamilton or whomever.

Your guy get's booed on the podium... wanna fix that? Go the a race and cheer louder and stop the whining online.