FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[LewEngBridewell]

Raikkonen is outscoring Alonso by almost 50% in the F1.com poll. Interesting the enthusiasm going on.

Not any more! Alonso seems to be catching up.

[sagi58]

Would anyone care to share a link to that poll? Puh-leese?

[What's Burning?]

Would anyone care to share a link to that poll? Puh-leese?

F1.com

[andrew]

Would anyone care to share a link to that poll? Puh-leese?

Linky dinky doo dah Bottom left of the page.

[What's Burning?]

Funny how this wasn't Montezemolo's line of reasoning when the got rid of Kimi for under performing in 2009

ESPNF1 Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has suggested Kimi Raikkonen can beat Fernando Alonso when they become team-mates next year, comparing the Finn with Niki Lauda at McLaren in the early 1980s.

Raikkonen will return to Ferrari in 2014 as Fernando Alonso's team-mate, offering up one of the most exciting driver pairings on the grid. He last drove for the team in 2009 when he was paid off at the end of the year to make way for Alonso and subsequently took a two-year sabbatical to go rallying.

Montezemolo believes Raikkonen's career trajectory is the same as three-time champion Lauda, who retired from the sport at the end of 1979 as a double world champion only to return with McLaren two years later. In 1984 he went on to win the title, beating Alain Prost by half a point and against the odds.

"Raikkonen is a case almost identical to that of Lauda, Niki also said 'enough' at one point because he was sick with Formula One," Montezemolo told Gazzetta dello Sport. "I spoke of the twin brother of Kimi [in 2009] because the driver we had was not the same one we had hired [in 2007]. The break has been good, he has returned to the top, won, and finished many races. I want a driver who will not make me regret losing [Felipe] Massa, and here he is. I want wins, consistent performances and podiums.

"Alonso will be the first to benefit and I'm happy he [Raikkonen] is back among us; the Ferrari employees have welcomed the news because he left good memories. Returning to Lauda, when he returned with renewed energy he beat Prost to the title... "

But despite the prospect of a threat from within, Montezemolo insists Alonso is happy for Raikkonen to join the team.

"We are not so masochistic as to hire a driver without informing Alonso. Fernando has always been aware of the choice of Raikkonen and also that the alternative of a young man gave us no certainties in the world championship. Raikkonen today is one of the strongest drivers in the sport, with Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton. Alonso was the first to be happy with his arrival."

Talking about the recent differences of opinion with Alonso - which have been played out in the media - Montezemolo said he liked to see the passion in his driver.

"I am the first to understand his discontent," he added. "Let's say his dissatisfaction is like the anger of a footballer who is called to the bench and tells the manager to get stuffed. But I'd rather deal with someone like that than a wuss!"

[sagi58]

Thanks for the link!!

di Montezemolo is, just like everyone, allowed to change his mind!

[What's Burning?]

Thanks for the link!!
di Montezemolo is, just like everyone, allowed to change his mind!

It's okay to call it for what it is, having made a mistake. What's still up for debate is whether the mistake was made in 2009 or in 2013.

[Hammer278]

I recall Monty talking about "will the real Kimi pls stand up" during that 2009 season....so I do believe that Ferrari expected more from him that season and he didn't deliver.

However, what's their barometer while he was in Lotus? Grosjean? The guy who frequently outqualified Kimi and sometimes outraced him? The most impressive thing Kimi's done since his come back is his roll in points scoring positions...and a certain driver called Nick Heidfeld holds the record.

Anyway...next year will likely tell us if we really do have a Big 4 in Formula 1...or just the Big 3.

[sagi58]

I recall Monty talking about "will the real Kimi pls stand up" during that 2009 season....so I do believe that Ferrari expected more from him that season and he didn't deliver.

However, what's their barometer while he was in Lotus? Grosjean? The guy who frequently outqualified Kimi and sometimes outraced him? The most impressive thing Kimi's done since his come back is his roll in points scoring positions...and a certain driver called Nick Heidfeld holds the record...

You know, we can't be exaulting one driver for his prowess on the track, in spite of him not scoring points and
then denigrating another for his perceived lack of skills when he is scoring more points than most drivers.
At the end of the day, it's the points that count in the standings and probably those same points that count
when it comes down to contract negotiations, eh?

[What's Burning?]

The only points that count in the standing are the first place points for the WDC and any team points in the WCC.

I think Ferrari would have done just as well to hire Webber or Hulkenburg or even dare I say Button to fill that second seat if all they were looking for is someone that could get more points than Massa and move them up the WCC money scale. Kimi is there for the fan support he brings, not there because anyone is truly expecting him to best Alonso. Will he score more points than Massa? I think so and if that's the goal, then only Ferrari can say whether the deal is worth their silent admission they threw out the wrong guy back in 2009.

[spankyham]

.... then only Ferrari can say whether the deal is worth their silent admission they threw out the wrong guy back in 2009.

I'm nor sure Ferrari would agree they made the wrong decision in '09. In the end its all about opinion, but, I think their opinion would be that the '09 Kimi was not up to the '07 Kimi or the '13 version. Perhaps his sabbatical is what reignited his career and results.

[spankyham]

I posted an interesting recent video interview with Felipe >>here<< where he comments on his assessment of his teammates at Ferrari (Schumi, Kimi and Nando) and who is the best/most complete.

[What's Burning?]

.... then only Ferrari can say whether the deal is worth their silent admission they threw out the wrong guy back in 2009.

I'm nor sure Ferrari would agree they made the wrong decision in '09. In the end its all about opinion, but, I think their opinion would be that the '09 Kimi was not up to the '07 Kimi or the '13 version. Perhaps his sabbatical is what reignited his career and results.

And you're right. I do have a wee bit of bias against it you know. It's not always easy to overcome. People change and grow, and perhaps Kimi did need the refocusing. Time will tell for sure and at this point anything that interrupts a quintuple double for Red Bull, I can get behind.

[Zekenwolf]

It's okay to call it for what it is, having made a mistake. What's still up for debate is whether the mistake was made in 2009 or in 2013.

I do not believe that 2009 was a mistake. Clearly, Raikkonen was losing motivation for whatever reason and Ferrari, as always, put the team first and bought him out and replaced him with Alonso. The idea was sound on principle and Alonso would have won at least 2 more WDCs and maybe even a WCC or two if it had not been for a couple of gentlemen named Adrian Newey and Sebastian Vettel.

Whether 2013 is a mistake or not, only time will tell. I have a feeling that we will see a somewhat different and more committed Raikkonen this time around. At almost 34, he'll know that it is now or never for him to make another mark in F1; but more than that he knows the personal angle involved - him getting measured-up against the highly rated Fernando Alonso - and Raikkonen will want to try his hardest come out in front.

[spankyham]

.... then only Ferrari can say whether the deal is worth their silent admission they threw out the wrong guy back in 2009.

I'm nor sure Ferrari would agree they made the wrong decision in '09. In the end its all about opinion, but, I think their opinion would be that the '09 Kimi was not up to the '07 Kimi or the '13 version. Perhaps his sabbatical is what reignited his career and results.

And you're right. I do have a wee bit of bias against it you know. It's not always easy to overcome. People change and grow, and perhaps Kimi did need the refocusing. Time will tell for sure and at this point anything that interrupts a quintuple double for Red Bull, I can get behind.

What I find disappointing for season 2013 is that, had they not changed the rules mid-season, it would definitely have been a race for the championship between Ferrari, RB and Lotus with Ferrari possibly being in the best position of those 3 teams. But, also, if the year had started on the "changed" rules then it would have been a race between Mercedes and Red Bull with Mercedes having the upper hand.