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[CookinFlat6]

Ron was the guy who gave Lewis a shot and nurtured him whilst most others would have been afraid to break the mould. His bravery cost him 100mill, caused him to leave the team.
Yet he still has a paternal pride

[Hammer278]

That was indeed a pretty cool interview. Wish the racing team was still headed by Dennis though, they were definitely highly respected and feared by everyone else including Ferrari under his rule.

[Jabberwocky]

Yes

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[CookinFlat6]

They were the best. Ron and FW took on the Ferraris etc and ran rings around them. Williams were for me the only real challenge at one point. Shame were they are now, but its where Mclaren are headed as Ron aint coming back and we have seen the difference between the inch perfect sharp McLaren (still bumbled through but endearingly) and the wishy washy fuzzy unfocused mediocrity thats exemplified by Button as lead driver

[What's Burning?]

Which begs the question, where's the next Cinderella team story?

[Jabberwocky]

Cindderella shoes or tyres are the key

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[CookinFlat6]

The days of Cinderellas maybe over. Just like there was a time when guys could build their own planes or rocket engined cars in a garage and take it out to race are over because of the complexity and costs etc.

The best bet is what Toto and Lauda have, ownership with a big manufacturer willing to partner but sit in the background

Actually they picked the best situation before - McLaren and Ron

But Ron had bigger ideas and ambition, and hes doing them, the P1 - a car made by a former mechanic, his own sports car company, hope it works financially, really do. If I was Ron I would ditch the F1 team and race in LMP

[racechick]

That was a lovely interview from Ron. I'm glad he feels like that. I didn't like the idea that he and Lewis parted on bad terms.

[sagi58]

At the risk of interfering with all the pats on the back, I'd like to ask a couple of questions:

First of all, how many Lewis Hamiltons are there waiting for a chance of a lifetime?

I realize that Hamilton has great talent; but, it was also carefully nurtured for years by McLaren.
I can't believe he is the only one ever to have shown promise at such a young age.

My second question may raise some hackles; but, I am not being in the least bit facetious in asking:
How is his story different to a "pay driver"?

[CookinFlat6]

How many Lewis' waiting for a chance? non I havent seen any rookies so good they get a top seat and beat the reigning WDC. Never been done. If there was a kid out there who looked like he could do the same I am sure he would be snapped up. Pretty difficult for a youngster to be good enough at that age to be obviously able to beat a reigning WDC come his rookie year

Talking about pay drivers, the difference is that Santander pay for Alonsos wages, i.e he is a driver whos team are paid to let him drive

Whereas with Lewis, well he actually gets paid by the team, one is called a pay driver the other is called a paid driver

[Hammer278]

Talking about pay drivers, the difference is that Santander pay for Alonsos wages, i.e he is a driver whos team are paid to let him drive

Whereas with Lewis, well he actually gets paid by the team, one is called a pay driver the other is called a paid driver

And that's how the cookie crumbles.

[sagi58]

How many Lewis' waiting for a chance? non I havent seen any rookies so good they get a top seat and beat the reigning WDC. Never been done. If there was a kid out there who looked like he could do the same I am sure he would be snapped up. Pretty difficult for a youngster to be good enough at that age to be obviously able to beat a reigning WDC come his rookie year

Talking about pay drivers, the difference is that Santander pay for Alonsos wages, i.e he is a driver whos team are paid to let him drive

Whereas with Lewis, well he actually gets paid by the team, one is called a pay driver the other is called a paid driver

Have to disagree that there aren't more talented youngsters out there. First of all, I would imagine that most teams do NOT have the inclination to find a superstar for 10 years down the road. Secondly, I highly doubt that every talented young driver is racing under the nose of any one who might recruit them for 10 years down the road. In fact, I would suggest that Hamilton's success was partially due to timing, he was in the right place at the right time as was Ron Dennis in the right place at the right time.

Regarding how a driver gets paid, in the end, it's all about sponsorship money! So, that a sponsor "prefers" to follow a specific driver around and pays money to the team, which may or may not get funnelled into the driver's pocket, is really just semantics. In fact, I believe it's just a "moniker" that is used in a fairly derogatory manner just to make any such situation seem as though the driver is not worthy of a drive without the sponsor's money.

Just my take!!

[sagi58]

Ron was the guy who gave Lewis a shot and nurtured him whilst most others would have been afraid to break the mould. His bravery cost him 100mill, caused him to leave the team.
Yet he still has a paternal pride

Ron Dennis may have been a man of great foresight who recognized the talent Hamilton had and gave him such a great opportunity; but, let's face it, if the McLaren brass hadn't been satisfied that Hamilton would be worth taking a risk on, they probably wouldn't have spent so much time and effort in helping him to develop to his fullest potential.

Secondly, you really can't/shouldn't correlate his decision to mentor Hamilton with Spygate!! Unless, of course, you know something about Hamilton's involvement?? Also, correct me if I'm wrong; but, I didn't ever hear/read that Ron Dennis paid the 100 Million out of his own pocket!! So, I don't understand how Spygate cost him anything, let alone how that it showed his "bravery"! At the end of the day, if McLaren hadn't been guilty of obtaining that Ferrari document/information, there is NO way they'd have paid out that kind of money for anyone's "bravery"!

[CookinFlat6]

Have to disagree that there aren't more talented youngsters out there.

I thought the question was whether there were talented youngsters who had approached a top team and impressed them so much with their talent and potential that they had been taken on early in the assumption that in the future they would beat a WDC in rookie year. Nope, so far I see only 1 Lewis, as per your question of another Lewis'

First of all, I would imagine that most teams do NOT have the inclination to find a superstar for 10 years down the road.

Did Mclaren have an inclination then? didnt Lewis approach Ron and impress him enough to 'break the mould'?

Secondly, I highly doubt that every talented young driver is racing under the nose of any one who might recruit them for 10 years down the road. In fact, I would suggest that Hamilton's success was partially due to timing, he was in the right place at the right time as was Ron Dennis in the right place at the right time.

The right place the right time was Lewis approaching Ron. Do you think young kart drivers are prevented from contact with team bosses? Or do you think it was an accident that Lewis approached Ron and planted the seed? Or maybe you are saying Ron did not correctly recognise the talent that would beat a WDC in his rookie year and it was on a day he made a mistake? and yet his mistake was still correct?

Regarding how a driver gets paid, in the end, it's all about sponsorship money! So, that a sponsor "prefers" to follow a specific driver around and pays money to the team, which may or may not get funnelled into the driver's pocket, is really just semantics.

Your question was about Lewis. He was funded and nurtured by the team, so there was no sponsor following him around unless you mean McLaren was his sponsor? If so you are the one using semantics to answer your own question!

In fact, I believe it's just a "moniker" that is used in a fairly derogatory manner just to make any such situation seem as though the driver is not worthy of a drive without the sponsor's money.

I thought you were asking about the difference in how the term 'pay driver' is applied to some but not to Lewis

Just my take!!

good to hear, maybe when you ask a question you could include the answer you want to hear, maybe multiple choice, where 'your take' is one of the options

[CookinFlat6]

Ron Dennis may have been a man of great foresight who recognized the talent Hamilton had and gave him such a great opportunity; but, let's face it, if the McLaren brass hadn't been satisfied that Hamilton would be worth taking a risk on, they probably wouldn't have spent so much time and effort in helping him to develop to his fullest potential.

And who do you think the McLaren brass were at that time? Do you think Ron was convinced but somehow it was really the mechanics who decided it was worth it?

Secondly, you really can't/shouldn't correlate his decision to mentor Hamilton with Spygate!! Unless, of course, you know something about Hamilton's involvement?? Also, correct me if I'm wrong; but, I didn't ever hear/read that Ron Dennis paid the 100 Million out of his own pocket!!

Ron was a shareholder, i.e an owner of the company and therefore along with the other owners liable for the companies costs. If the other shareholders had paid the whole amount disporportionally, then its likely that his share was levied through equity dilution or something else. Either way Ron as an owner did not gain money in his pocket as a result of spygate.[/quote]

So, I don't understand how Spygate cost him anything, let alone how that it showed his "bravery"! At the end of the day, if McLaren hadn't been guilty of obtaining that Ferrari document/information, there is NO way they'd have paid out that kind of money for anyone's "bravery"!

Rons bravery was first of all to give a shot to a black driver at a time when F1 teams, audiences, sponsors, stewards etc were, lets say, less diverse in scope.
But specifically the bravery was in allowing the rookie equality to challenge the WDC, which was fairly unique. Then the most bravery was shown when confronted by Alonsos blackmail attempts (it was claimed that Alonso asked the team to underfuel Lewis' car for example) and instead of yielding to black mail, didnt order Lewis to stand down, but called the Spaniards bluff and threw himself at the mercy of the FIA.
So the cost to Ron of allowing a rookie equal chances with a WDC was hard cash (he is a shareholder) as well as having to leave F1, and ofcourse the WCC
Finally its not if they had the documents or not, they had, but Alonso was making use of them and would not have turned informer if Lewis had been prevented from embarrassing him on track