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[mnmracer]

just grow up

Bit rich coming from a shameless filthy liar.

blablabla equal performances blablabla

Are you just stupid or are you seriously so disgustingly pathetic that you keep trying to sell your lies to us?
There was no equal performance. You make it come across like Webber finished every race just a few seconds behind Vettel. That is a flat-out lie.

In 2009, Vettel outperformed Webber without 'tricks'.
In 2010, Vettel outperformed Webber without 'tricks'.
In the first 3/4ths of 2012, Vettel outperformed Webber without 'tricks'.

The entire premise of your argument is based on withholding information and flat-out lying. It's disgusting and pathetic.

Finally why do you think Webber beat Seb on top gear?
becasue the reasonably priced car didnt have a blown difusser

I take it you are done with any attempt of a serious discussion you had in mind now that people don't believe your lies anymore?

[racechick]

Mnmracer, it isn't Cookin's view that's being discussed, it's Mark Hughes the F1 journalist and technical expert's view. You don't have to call Cookin a liar, he's just repeating what was in the article.

[CookinFlat6]

Bit rich coming from a shameless filthy liar.

The entire premise of your argument is based on withholding information and flat-out lying. It's disgusting and pathetic.

(I havent had such a good laugh for ages)

oohh matron!, shameless and filthy

Mark Hughes makes a good point - Sebs advantage over webber evaporated when his trick was taken away, i.e. he was not much better than Webber, now, we know that Webber doesnt have a similar trick just for him, therefore we can conclude that the Red bull car is built around Seb and not around Mark

Therefore its understandable why Seb has beaten Mark hands down for so long. Now if we look at the loss in advantage Seb suffered when just one trick was taken off a car built for him, then its not unreasonable to suggest that Webber, given a car built around him, given clutches that work regularly and given a team mate who is told to turn down his engine when needed........

Well we could reasonably conclude that Seb is a fairly average driver, like Webber, Massa and Heidfeld

But we havent, yet

[andrew]

just grow up

Bit rich coming from a shameless filthy liar.

Bit harsh on shameless filthy liars!

Why people can't accept that Vettel is one of the best out there at the moment is beyond all reasonable comprehension! The last driver I can think of to win a championship in a car that wasn't the best was probably Schumacher in 2000. So I take it we down play hte achievements of all subsequent champions, namely Alonso, Button, Hamilto, Raikonen and Vettel?

To say that Vettel is no better a driver than Webber is simply not true - look at his pre-RBR drivers in F1 and it is glaringly obvious. As for moaning about a car being built round a driver, so what? Other teams do it if they want to win championships. Building the car round the no. 2 would be laughably stupid!

Just thought I'd get that in before you lot manage to get another thread locked again.

[racechick]

Andrew, no one has said he's just as good as Webber. I think everyone is agreed that he's one if the best three drivers on the grid.the discussion is about what makes him one if the best three drivers on the grid.

[andrew]

Andrew, no one has said he's just as good as Webber. I think everyone is agreed that he's one if the best three drivers on the grid.the discussion is about what makes him one if the best three drivers on the grid.

Well we could reasonably conclude that Seb is a fairly average driver, like Webber, Massa and Heidfeld

Interesting.....

[Hammer278]

Andrew, no one has said he's just as good as Webber. I think everyone is agreed that he's one if the best three drivers on the grid.the discussion is about what makes him one if the best three drivers on the grid.

Well we could reasonably conclude that Seb is a fairly average driver, like Webber, Massa and Heidfeld

Interesting.....

Lol as usual the poor tike misses a big fat sarcastic post by Cookinflat....

[CookinFlat6]

That's the guy who finds out what's going on from mining engineering journals

[racechick]

Andrew, no one has said he's just as good as Webber. I think everyone is agreed that he's one if the best three drivers on the grid.the discussion is about what makes him one if the best three drivers on the grid.

Well we could reasonably conclude that Seb is a fairly average driver, like Webber, Massa and Heidfeld

Interesting.....

You forgot his next sentence....

BUT WE HAVEN'T YET!!!

[CookinFlat6]

'Filthy shameless disgusting and revolting behaviour' - leaving info out to mislead others'

'err hold on its pro Seb, ssh '

The cleverest boys in town, here come the Bieberettes !

[mnmracer]

Mnmracer, it isn't Cookin's view that's being discussed, it's Mark Hughes the F1 journalist and technical expert's view. You don't have to call Cookin a liar, he's just repeating what was in the article.

It's Mark Hughes' view that was being discussed.
Then Cookin came and started spreading his lies again.

And until someone he does listen to tells him this will go on and on and on, because I don't know what brain damage he got that he continues to think this is normal behavior, he really does not seem to understand that such lying deceptive behavior is not normal.

[racechick]

What lies????? What are you on about?? I can understand your huge support for Vettel but I think you're missing the point . Cookie has said on many occasions that he rates Seb, I reckon he rates him higher than Alonso.
And the lies and brain damage talk is not called for whatever anyone thinks of Vettel!!

[mnmracer]

What lies????? What are you on about?? I can understand your huge support for Vettel but I think you're missing the point . Cookie has said on many occasions that he rates Seb, I reckon he rates him higher than Alonso.

That doesn't excuse him or anybody from spreading lies.

And the lies and brain damage talk is not called for whatever anyone thinks of Vettel!!

If you think it's about opinions, please read again and see what word I use.
He is making claims, on a regular basis, that are factually untrue. You know, lies.
That's why I call him out on just that, on lies.

He doesn't lie, I don't call him a liar.
He lies, I call him what he is: a liar.

Can't make it much more simple.

[CookinFlat6]

Just as good as Webber?

But more consistent, more focused. Would have less 'off' days and would generally be more effective. However speed wise I think the facts speak for themselves. He would ofcourse also need to make sure his clutch worked all the time.

This is what I said about Seb in response to the implication in the Mark Hughes article

Hughes says 'Sebs performance advantage over Webber evaporated during the period Seb had his trick taken away

Evaporated means Seb was no longer much better than Webber due to removal of his advantage.

The bieberette is upset about facing facts

facts are, when Seb has his trick, he is always way faster than Webber, but when it was taken away, he and webber were closely matched, the difference ofcourse is that Seb is more consistence etc etc

Its like someone saying that Justine Bieber is the best musician, better than Hendrix. Then when its gentle pointed out that he doesnt actually play any instruments, bieberette becomes a teenage girl starting to have her moments

The bottom line is this Seb could not replicate the dominance over Webber and the rest of the field when his trick was removed, this raises a question mark over how good he would be without Newey building the car to suit his particular trick

Now whether he is a one trick pony or not, lets see

but the truth is Webber matched Seb when his tricks were removed, and the car is built around Seb, not Webber

What say the bieberettes?

where is the lie about your fave blonde?

[mnmracer]

Evaporated means Seb was no longer much better than Webber due to removal of his advantage.

Which, if you cared about a little thing called the truth, you should know to be incorrect.
You can reword it any way you want, it is a big fat factual lie.

but the truth is Webber matched Seb when his tricks were removed, and the car is built around Seb, not Webber

Disregarding the lie about matching, Red Bull and Webber themselves have said the car was suited to Webber early 2012. Another lie.
That's not even regarding 2009, when the Red Bull was most definitely not built around Vettel, or 2010, when there was no such thing as an EBD. All very simple facts, that you wipe your bottom with to fulfill your sick need to lie.