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#371563
The thing with the Reb Bull chassis is that they're clearly making more downforce from the body of the car than anyone else, consequently they're able to play more with the wings to set up the car to suit a specific circuit which is why over the last few years they've enjoyed the success.


If it is really that obvious, why are the other teams not following suit? A lot of them have more powerful engines after all.
#371565
The thing with the Reb Bull chassis is that they're clearly making more downforce from the body of the car than anyone else, consequently they're able to play more with the wings to set up the car to suit a specific circuit which is why over the last few years they've enjoyed the success.


If it is really that obvious, why are the other teams not following suit? A lot of them have more powerful engines after all.


I guess it's because they don't have Newey to find those sweet spots, it's not just about having the most powerful engine.
Newey is a genius!
#371568
I guess it's because they don't have Newey to find those sweet spots, it's not just about having the most powerful engine.
Newey is a genius!


Newey is a genius without doubt but in such an exposed sport like F1 surely some of the others would have cottoned on to the 'secrets' by now? Team like Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren have more funds and resources than Red Bull. With the present F1 regulations levelling the playing field to a large extent nowadays, teams would not be able to have gizmos that their opponents don't.
#371571
Didnt Red Bull ignore that ( can't remember the name) that thing where the teams agreed to limit spending.

On the gizmo's thing, I'm sure the teams try their dampest to copy innovations, but they can't always because of the inherent car design, and even if they can they're playing catch up.
#371615
Didnt Red Bull ignore that ( can't remember the name) that thing where the teams agreed to limit spending...

I think you're referring to the RRA (Resource Restriction Agreement), which doesn't actually exist/hasn't been signed, yet!
#371692
The thing with the Reb Bull chassis is that they're clearly making more downforce from the body of the car than anyone else, consequently they're able to play more with the wings to set up the car to suit a specific circuit which is why over the last few years they've enjoyed the success.


If it is really that obvious, why are the other teams not following suit? A lot of them have more powerful engines after all.


Simply because Red Bull in 2009 developed the whole car and chassis around Neweys aero philosophy. So the car from the start completely exploited the regulations. And they have just evolved it since.
Other teams can copy bits but its hard to change the whole chassis philosophy.
As far as a more powerful engine, ask yourself what the difference is between Merc, McLaren and Force India, they all have the same engine. Yes, F1 has been a lot more than engines for a while, more about aero, downforce, i.e chassis when you add mechanical stuff like suspension. So the car with the best integrated aero concepts, i.e. packaging everything mechanical and engine within the aero concept, has the most effective car. This era has thus belonged to one A Newey normally found in Milton Keynes.

From 2014 tho, there is another regulation shift, aero becomes less of a differentiator due to new rules, and the engine and mechanical grip therefore are again important

Finally, talking about 'if its more obvious, why dont the teams just turn up on Friday with a copy?

Google search 'Red Bull Flexing or not front wing'
Last edited by CookinFlat6 on 01 Sep 13, 12:55, edited 1 time in total.
#371699
Wasn't the RRA a FOTA initiative? And FOTA fell apart because RBR would not release the books in its resources? Then other teams Ferrari and it aligned followers walk away at that point.

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#371700
Wasn't the RRA a FOTA initiative? And FOTA fell apart because RBR would not release the books in its resources? Then other teams Ferrari and it aligned followers walk away at that point.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4

So... it was a case of "you show me yours and I'll show you mine"... but, Red Bull didn't want to "play"?
Well, then good for Ferrari that it walked away, aligned followers or not!! :clap:
#371703
Not so good. If the teams could limit costs themselves they would be less likely to have worse conditions imposed by the FIA . Had Red Bull been left isolated there was more chance they'd have fallen into line.
That's how the FIA work though, keep the teams divided.
#371709
From 2014 tho, there is another regulation shift, aero becomes less of a differentiator due to new rules, and the engine and mechanical grip therefore are again important


OK. but how mush less of a differentiator is aero going to be in 2014? Although the rules seem to have turned more towards engine power, have not the associated rules levelled out the playing field a bit? Also, I was under the impression that aero did influence mechanical grip but will stand corrected if that is not the case.

Another factor I was thinking was track dependency. Will Aero still be the major factor in high downforce circuits and engine power in the faster 'traditional' tracks?
#371738
Not so good. If the teams could limit costs themselves they would be less likely to have worse conditions imposed by the FIA . Had Red Bull been left isolated there was more chance they'd have fallen into line.
That's how the FIA work though, keep the teams divided.

It would seem the FIA's philosophy of divide and conquer has only led Red Bull to multiple sets of titles! :banghead:
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