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[CookinFlat6]

For the record, I did not appreciate his "Ali G" comment, as it was unfortunately timed!
He was obviously frustrated, when he made the comment; however, considering that
not everyone knows of the character Hamilton was mimicking, there really should not
be any kind of surprize at how it was perceived.

Just as a reminder:
[youtube]EDdl1nEmIXE[/youtube]

I realize that was then and that Hamilton would probably think twice about making that
comment today, unfortunately, the past cannot be undone, even if it can be understood.

If there ever was an appropriate time for a black fellow who has been excessively penalised and mysteriously picked on and singled out by the authorities to say what a lot were thinking, it may not have been to the media. However there was nothing else wrong with saying 'are they picking on me because I am black?' And he even had the presence of mind to make a joke about it to show he wasnt formally accusing the stewards.

Why did you not appreciate it? are you a steward or one of those penalising him unfairly?

Senna said many times that Ballestre and his FIA cronies picked on him because he was South American and the FIA was French centered

What if Kimi had said, 'are they penalising me because I am Finnish' would you not appreciate that?

It reminds me of when Obama was running for his first term, and had run a brilliant campaign with slick marketing etc, then the one time he was forced to discuss race and said something like 'there are somethings unfair' All of a sudden it was like 'aha he has pulled the race card, we knew it he is a commie, he is an a-rab, dont vote for him etc, cant be trusted'

And he probably lost the redneck vote at that point

[1Lemon]

And that's it!!! That's the sum total of Lewis Hamilton not being a team player??

Well the first clip proves my point, so thanks for posting that. Despite being ecstatic about his drive, He said he couldn't have done it without the team, he thanked the team and he referred to the team as 'we'.

In the second clip he was clearly livid at being taken out and being given a duff strategy ( of which he was given many). He was railing against the strategy call not the team per se.

But as this whole argument is based on Di Resta mentioning 'I' rather than 'We' when Ham does it too (Maybe I should continue this in the other thread but cross threading will be confusing so i'll keep it short) but again Sagi never said he isn't a team player, just that he doesn't always thank the team, also when Di Resta has good races he does thank the team and say how they gave him good calls; perhaps the reason you never hear it from him is that FI never seem to make hardly any good strategic calls.

And I have heard Lewis talking about his fast laps and how it just fell together and how he was in the zone with little or no mention of the team.

[CookinFlat6]

It's about who give the impression of not being a team player

[racechick]

And that's it!!! That's the sum total of Lewis Hamilton not being a team player??

Well the first clip proves my point, so thanks for posting that. Despite being ecstatic about his drive, He said he couldn't have done it without the team, he thanked the team and he referred to the team as 'we'.

In the second clip he was clearly livid at being taken out and being given a duff strategy ( of which he was given many). He was railing against the strategy call not the team per se.

But as this whole argument is based on Di Resta mentioning 'I' rather than 'We' when Ham does it too (Maybe I should continue this in the other thread but cross threading will be confusing so i'll keep it short) but again Sagi never said he isn't a team player, just that he doesn't always thank the team, also when Di Resta has good races he does thank the team and say how they gave him good calls; perhaps the reason you never hear it from him is that FI never seem to make hardly any good strategic calls.

And I have heard Lewis talking about his fast laps and how it just fell together and how he was in the zone with little or no mention of the team.

Sagi and I are going to see things differently, she has issues with Hamilton, I think he's the best. She likes Di Resta , I have reservations.
I'm not saying Lewis is an angel and has never said anything wrong, because he has misjudged situations and spoken without thinking. But if I were a team boss I would take Lewis in a heartbeat, not just because of his talent, but because I think he's a team player. He's never asked for favours , only ever for parity.
If I were looking to employ Di Resta, after his comments Sunday, I may want to dig a little deeper before committing. Just my view, I could have the guy all wrong.

[CookinFlat6]

So far it appears as though the team bosses share RCs reservations instead of Paul's, as I don't see any jumping over themselves to put him in a seat. And maybe the time will come soon when FI notice this and stop allowing him to act the diva who is slumming it with them
The bottom line is that no one likes a whinger

[sagi58]

And that's it!!! That's the sum total of Lewis Hamilton not being a team player??

No, that was not it! There were numerous times when I heard much the same thing; but, I am not prepared to waste time looking for enough "evidence" that would stand up in a court of law. I was asked for an example and that's what I tried to provide.

...Don't know why you've brought up the Ali G incident, nothing to do with not being a team player, but since you have , I'll comment. In fact I mentioned it just the other day on another thread...

Which is why I added my two cents and why I posted my comment separately! I thought that would be OK, to be honest!

Personally, I have never been accused of being "politically correct" as I usually say what's on my mind, without pulling any punches.
Having said that, I shy away from running off my mouth when I get really peeved, as it serves no purposes other than to undermine my opinion/stance.

The "problem" I had with that comment was pretty simple: Hamilton was visibly frustrated, granted; but, invoking such a comment out of the context within which it was originally made, gives the perception of "playing the race card"! That may not have been his intention, granted. But, as I said earlier, the timing was unfortunate.

[sagi58]

...Why did you not appreciate it? are you a steward or one of those penalising him unfairly?...

And, there you have it in a nutshell!! Any time someone doesn't fawn all over Hamilton or any time someone doesn't agree that Hamilton is being unfairly treated, they have to be racist!! Puh-leese... Where I am concerned, please don't look for hidden meanings, as I like to be honest and respectful!!

You know, there is a place and a time for everything, making that comment at that point in time can be compared to Alonso's "birthday comment" about wanting a car that can help him win the WDC. The timing was unfortunate for both. Period.

[CookinFlat6]

...Why did you not appreciate it? are you a steward or one of those penalising him unfairly?...

And, there you have it in a nutshell!! Any time someone doesn't fawn all over Hamilton or any time someone doesn't agree that Hamilton is being unfairly treated, they have to be racist!! Puh-leese... Where I am concerned, please don't look for hidden meanings, as I like to be honest and respectful!!

erm, maybe you did not understand the admittedly subtle question. Before you start waving the anti race card, or reverse race card, or even the race race card (see what I did there?) I did not ask you if you were a steward because you are racist. Read again, I asked why you did not appreciate it. Whats it got to do with you? did it upset you? did it shock you that someone could possibly accuse the stewards of been rasict in this noble sport of F1 as you think that could never be the case?
Did you not appreciate it because your kids were listening and you feel the topic is not for kids.
Did you not appreciate it because you are there to watch F1 and a driver should grin and bear whatever discrimination may exist and not disturb the idylic scene?
Did you not appreciate it because you are an Ali G fan and you though he was stealing his lines?
Or did you not appreciate it because you are have experienced some kind of discrimination your self and you feel that Lewis hasnt?

I look forward to your answer

It is very interesting to me because this is the first time I have actually come across anyone who was hurt by it or didnt appreciate it, a negative perception. I assumed the only ones might be the stewards who felt they were been accused of racicm, and black people, who felt Lewis was messing up with a heavy subject and ofcourse rednecks, the overt ones and the discreet ones - and I felt that they would be thinking 'what an ungrateful so and so, how dare he turn around and bite the hand that feeds him, he should know his place and keep quiet'

For me rasicm, discrimination, sexism, nationalism etc always exists, just like wife beaters murderers and sadists would run riot given a chance. However history tells us that its better in the long run to suppress these 'wrong' types by law/force and by culture and social rejection.
But if we pretend that there is no racism or child molesters in the BBc, and attack anyone who mentions it as pulling a pc card, what happens is that its suppressed and they perps do it in secret. However if people are allowed to point these things out as soon as they are seen, then its more likely to be controlled. Otherwise one day you wake up and half the kiddies presenters and entertainers on tv are pediophiles, and the other half knew about it but didnt want to speak out for fear of upsetting someone, or someone would not appreciate it....errr hold on

But who are these people who do not appreciate someone pointing out that bears do crap in the woods?

[sagi58]

I did understand your question and I answered it accordingly. YES, I do know that ALL sorts of "isms" exist, in fact, I've been on the receiving end a couple of times myself! I do not believe that I live in a perfect world and highly doubt that anyone actually does. I also recognize that most people have experienced/lived some form of bias/discrimination, thus I can understand Hamilton's frustration at the situation as he/his fans saw it.

My personal issue with Hamilton's use of that line is very simple, it was yet "another" excuse, explanation, reason, justification as to why he hadn't accomplished everything he and his fans expected/anticipated. I realize he may have faced discrimination as a child; but, his talent behind the wheel, his father's dedication to nurturing that talent, and McLaren's interest in him basically opened doors and paved his way into F1, something that most youngsters can only dream of. By the time he made that comment, I was tired of hearing rationalizations about how things would have, could have, should have been different for him at any race he didn't win.

By the way, quoting Ali G was an unfortunate choice, considering he is a character created by Sacha Baron Cohen, a comic who happens to be white man. In Ali G, Cohen has created an uneducated, misogynistic Black man who makes comments purely for the shock value and I understand the attraction to blowing the "establishment" out of the water.

However, coming from Hamilton, in that particular moment, that single comment made a mockery of his talent, his father's sacrifices and the support of a big name team.
And, that is why I did not appreciate that comment/phrase, especially as it has been used so often to detract from the issue at hand.

[racechick]

And that's it!!! That's the sum total of Lewis Hamilton not being a team player??

No, that was not it! There were numerous times when I heard much the same thing; but, I am not prepared to waste time looking for enough "evidence" that would stand up in a court of law. I was asked for an example and that's what I tried to provide..

But the first example you provided proved my point not yours. In the clip, Whilst being delighted at his performance, he thanked the team, said he couldn't have done it without them and referred to the outfit as 'we'. If there were numerous examples, I'm surprised you chose one that proved my point and not yours.

Ali G is a completely different point and does not prove that Lewis is not a team player. I can only assume you brought it up to try to discredit him in another way.
Yes Baron Cohen is British albeit with Jewish heritage but he's widely appreciated by the black cmommunity,there's more going on in his comedy than is immediately obvious , he's an accepted, award winning comedian. Why shouldn't Lewis make a joke in that vein? He was unfairly punished on more than one occasion and had rightly had enough. NOT JUST EXCUSES!!
Yes he was bullied at school, could just as easily have been because of his height than his colour, not an issue for him, he dealt with it.
And on getting his break into F1, you are right it was his outstanding talent and his fathers support.

[CookinFlat6]

By the way, quoting Ali G was an unfortunate choice, considering he is a character created by Sacha Baron Cohen, a comic who happens to be white man. In Ali G, Cohen has created an uneducated, misogynistic Black man who makes comments purely for the shock value and I understand the attraction to blowing the "establishment" out of the water.

However, coming from Hamilton, in that particular moment, that single comment made a mockery of his talent, his father's sacrifices and the support of a big name team.
And, that is why I did not appreciate that comment/phrase, especially as it has been used so often to detract from the issue at hand.

Ali G is a character played by a Jew. That character is a caricature of British Indian/Pakistani kids who pretend to be black. So its not about 'a black in funny situations' its about a certain culture (which actually includes Jew, white and other non blacks) that mimic black uneducated street culture in a bid to seem cool. Maybe he got the idea from the beastie boys who knows

Yes the character ends up exploiting black culture because the irony goes above the heads of many, especially years later.

So Lewis quoting Ali G, was about Lewis saying 'if I was not black, I would say something like is it because Im black' because that was the whole Ali g joke. Non blacks saying 'is it because Im black' when confronted with some kind of unfairness

Anyway I still dont get why you didnt appreciate this comment. Are you saying there was no chance at all that Lewis was excessively penalised because of his colour? That there is no way prejudice existed in those stewards? And that it was an excuse from Lewis

Do you think Lewis ever experienced racism in his whole driving career before that? If so, do you think it was never, seldom or often?

[bud]

nationalistic degrading material is prevalent on this board...

Back onto Lewis, what's with his hash tagging of late? He is losing the plot!! #badassmotha #badman #greatest #bestthateverdidit

It's actually rather hilarious seeing his posts about his dog and his selfies!

[CookinFlat6]

nationalistic degrading material is prevalent on this board...

So is intellect of the standard of a dingo with learning difficulties

[Hammer278]

nationalistic degrading material is prevalent on this board...

Back onto Lewis, what's with his hash tagging of late? He is losing the plot!! #badassmotha #badman #greatest #bestthateverdidit

It's actually rather hilarious seeing his posts about his dog and his selfies!

Hilarious stuff indeed.

Something just slightly more hilarious.....

WDC:
Lewis Hamilton: 139
Jenson Button: 47

WCC:
Mercedes AMG: 235
McLaren McTooned: 65

[CookinFlat6]

Careful Hamms, you might get challenged and asked to prove that you have balls by putting your money down in a bet. As we all know, on an internet forum, the alternative to calling out someone who outsmarts you in the pub is to challenge him to bet real money.

And just like in the pub, sometimes when you get outside, the cove has scarpered as quick as his pushbike will go

but comes back to hurl insults through the window before scarpering again