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[CookinFlat6]

However, since so many measure success in F1 by titles, it's early yet!

Its ealy yet, so we either stop debating and speculating and wait for the future,

or we draw parallels, extrapolate facts, anticipate the outcome and compare it to MS and FA when they traded up and had a team with mighty resouces working to give the car to win titles.

It may happen like with FA, no titles yet or with MS, many titles after a couple of years

but maybe because its Lewis we need to all make no assumptions as we are not sure if he meant to trade down to a team with lesser prospects unlike MS and FA

[spankyham]

Well I think they became a safety issue when 6 or 7 exploded at Silverstone

They definitely became a safety issue, no doubt about it. The question was what how to deal with that safety issue. There were two paths available:-
1) change the rules mid-season back to what Red Bull and others had requested
2) make no rule changes and require teams to adjust their cars to conform, in a safe way with the rules as written - as Ferrari and Lotus had done.

[racechick]

Well I think they became a safety issue when 6 or 7 exploded at Silverstone

They definitely became a safety issue, no doubt about it. The question was what how to deal with that safety issue. There were two paths available:-
1) change the rules mid-season back to what Red Bull and others had requested
2) make no rule changes and require teams to adjust their cars to conform, in a safe way with the rules as written - as Ferrari and Lotus had done.

But Ferrari had failures at Silverstone, so their way wasn't safe

[What's Burning?]

Well I think they became a safety issue when 6 or 7 exploded at Silverstone

They definitely became a safety issue, no doubt about it. The question was what how to deal with that safety issue. There were two paths available:-
1) change the rules mid-season back to what Red Bull and others had requested
2) make no rule changes and require teams to adjust their cars to conform, in a safe way with the rules as written - as Ferrari and Lotus had done.

I understand your pov (although it favors the Scuderia) but the reality is that it's a hobson's choice, because the issue at hand was crap tires from the beginning. I think you're romanticizing to a degree Lotus' and Ferrari's command of the tires. Yes it was better but they were also doing the things to adapt their cars to the rubber when it suited them. Ofcourse not all the time, but in Silverstone Massa's tires were shredded just like everyone else's.

So the change to the specification mid season was inevitable after that because of a fundamental flaw to the tires.

This whole thing has reeked from the beginning, no one had liked Pirelli's attempt to placate the lunacy of the FiA's instructions. From the HUGE marbles in the beginning, to the CLIFF of a drop off, To the graining and spaghetti feel of the tires to then the shredded explosions, it's been a comedy of errors with each attempt kicking the can down the road without a real solution. The solution was to have the tires they've got now, three years into their stint.

[1Lemon]

Well I think they became a safety issue when 6 or 7 exploded at Silverstone

They definitely became a safety issue, no doubt about it. The question was what how to deal with that safety issue. There were two paths available:-
1) change the rules mid-season back to what Red Bull and others had requested
2) make no rule changes and require teams to adjust their cars to conform, in a safe way with the rules as written - as Ferrari and Lotus had done.

I understand your pov (although it favors the Scuderia) but the reality is that it's a hobson's choice, because the issue at hand was crap tires from the beginning. I think you're romanticizing to a degree Lotus' and Ferrari's command of the tires. Yes it was better but they were also doing the things to adapt their cars to the rubber when it suited them. Ofcourse not all the time, but in Silverstone Massa's tires were shredded just like everyone else's.

So the change to the specification mid season was inevitable after that because of a fundamental flaw to the tires.

This whole thing has reeked from the beginning, no one had liked Pirelli's attempt to placate the lunacy of the FiA's instructions. From the HUGE marbles in the beginning, to the CLIFF of a drop off, To the graining and spaghetti feel of the tires to then the shredded explosions, it's been a comedy of errors with each attempt kicking the can down the road without a real solution. The solution was to have the tires they've got now, three years into their stint.

I still feel that they should have enforced the existing camber/tyre position rules BEFORE changing the compounds, maybe do a 3/4 races with these and if there are any problems then change compound, at least this would give some of the other teams like Force India, Ferrari and Lotus time to develop for the new tyre. It's almost as if they were punished for designing a car that works too well with tyres.

[sagi58]

However, since so many measure success in F1 by titles, it's early yet!

Its ealy yet, so we either stop debating and speculating and wait for the future,

or we draw parallels, extrapolate facts, anticipate the outcome and compare it to MS and FA when they traded up and had a team with mighty resouces working to give the car to win titles.

It may happen like with FA, no titles yet or with MS, many titles after a couple of years

but maybe because its Lewis we need to all make no assumptions as we are not sure if he meant to trade down to a team with lesser prospects unlike MS and FA

When Schumi came back to F1, many of us assumed he would do all sorts of great things!!
When Alonso came to Ferrari, many of us assumed he would do all sorts of great things!!
I still have faith in Alonso and Ferrari; but, the wait is killing me.

So, when I said you can't compare the facts with any kind of speculation about the future,
it wasn't ""because it's Lewis" and it's definitely NOT because I believe he traded down.

[sagi58]

...So the change to the specification mid season was inevitable after that because of a fundamental flaw to the tires.

This whole thing has reeked from the beginning, no one had liked Pirelli's attempt to placate the lunacy of the FiA's instructions. From the HUGE marbles in the beginning, to the CLIFF of a drop off, To the graining and spaghetti feel of the tires to then the shredded explosions, it's been a comedy of errors with each attempt kicking the can down the road without a real solution. The solution was to have the tires they've got now, three years into their stint.

Thank you!! Agree with you completely. You know, I can't believe/accept that any company which is given such a huge
responsibility/prestigious contract would do so without testing its product extensively. Regardless of the car they were
"allowed" to test with, the composition was completely within their control, as was their willingness to allow such ridiculous
parameters to dictate how they did their job. They are the professionals, aren't they?


p.s. some of us enjoy our spaghetti al dente and overcooked!!

[CookinFlat6]

However, since so many measure success in F1 by titles, it's early yet!

Its ealy yet, so we either stop debating and speculating and wait for the future,

or we draw parallels, extrapolate facts, anticipate the outcome and compare it to MS and FA when they traded up and had a team with mighty resouces working to give the car to win titles.

It may happen like with FA, no titles yet or with MS, many titles after a couple of years

but maybe because its Lewis we need to all make no assumptions as we are not sure if he meant to trade down to a team with lesser prospects unlike MS and FA

When Schumi came back to F1, many of us assumed he would do all sorts of great things!!
When Alonso came to Ferrari, many of us assumed he would do all sorts of great things!!
I still have faith in Alonso and Ferrari; but, the wait is killing me.

So, when I said you can't compare the facts with any kind of speculation about the future,
it wasn't ""because it's Lewis" and it's definitely NOT because I believe he traded down.

Ms and his second coming is not a parallel, MS when he first moved to Ferrari after some success at Benetton is. Alonso and his 'top driver top team' marriage to Ferrari is

Here is an article from Coulthard where he tries to express something similar - the era of ace drivers with teams built around them
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23844376

[sagi58]

However, since so many measure success in F1 by titles, it's early yet!

Its ealy yet, so we either stop debating and speculating and wait for the future,

or we draw parallels, extrapolate facts, anticipate the outcome and compare it to MS and FA when they traded up and had a team with mighty resouces working to give the car to win titles.

It may happen like with FA, no titles yet or with MS, many titles after a couple of years

but maybe because its Lewis we need to all make no assumptions as we are not sure if he meant to trade down to a team with lesser prospects unlike MS and FA

When Schumi came back to F1, many of us assumed he would do all sorts of great things!!
When Alonso came to Ferrari, many of us assumed he would do all sorts of great things!!
I still have faith in Alonso and Ferrari; but, the wait is killing me.

So, when I said you can't compare the facts with any kind of speculation about the future,
it wasn't ""because it's Lewis" and it's definitely NOT because I believe he traded down.

Ms and his second coming is not a parallel, MS when he first moved to Ferrari after some success at Benetton is. Alonso and his 'top driver top team' marriage to Ferrari is

Here is an article from Coulthard where he tries to express something similar - the era of ace drivers with teams built around them
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23844376

Schumi coming back, for me, is a parallel because I was talking about expectations at a team that was "lesser" than the Ferrari he retired from.

Since you've agreed without actually saying it, I believe I've explained my comments about not comparing what was with what might be.

As for Coulthard's article, I have to say that I read anything he writes with a grain of salt, since he is on Red Bull's payroll. That last paragraph of his is a clear indication of him knowing which side his bread is buttered on.

[sagi58]

Straight from the hip:

[youtube]EiTq0FiZGIU[/youtube]

[CookinFlat6]

Hmmn, Lewis started at one team then moved on to a team with bigger ambitions, so did Alonso and so did MS. Not sure what thats got to do with MS coming out of retirement

All 3 were top aces employed by a team with big resources and big ambitions as the best available, on the back of their earlier career at the lesser team.

Like I said Couthard 'tries' to explain this era of the ace driver with a complete package built around him. We know he works for Reb Bull, guess what Seb and RBR are one of those aces he mentions along with Alonso/Ferrari and Lewis/Merc.

Maybe you mean that because Coulthard is a RBR spokesman that he is pretending that Seb is an ace?

I would say its obvious to anyone that there are 3 aces at the moment in the 3 top teams. And each of those upgraded from a lesser team

[racechick]

Alonso says he is going to make an important announcement soon.mWhats he up to?

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... s-imminent

[LRW]

Alonso says he is going to make an important announcement soon.mWhats he up to?

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... s-imminent

He is going to dye his hair blonde......

I would put money on that he is NOT moving to RB, as sky are speculating. That would be even bigger than the Mercedes / Lewis news of last year.....

Maybe announcing a new team mate....?

[andrew]

Probably announcing that he'll be extending his Ferrari contract to last the rest of his F1 days.

[CookinFlat6]

Maybe he is moving back to Renault Enstone

because he wants to steer well clear of the Ferrari turbo

I doubt its just to say how happy he is at Ferrari, and we know that he can be i bit of a drama queen when he parts company with teams

could be interesting