FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[andrew]

Why is the bet in $'s? Why not £'s? Make it a decent amount of cash.

Anyway, back to the 2014 engines.........

Keeping cool the challenge for 2014

Keeping cool seems set to be the challenge for F1 teams when new engine regulations come into play for the 2014 season

Caterham technical director Mark Smith says the issue of cooling is set to be the biggest challenge teams will face when new engine rules come into play for the 2014 F1 season.

Next year will see teams switch to 1.6-litre turbo-charged units featuring an Energy Recovery System, which will replace the V8 engines already in place.

That change in engines is set to provide teams with a number of challenges when it comes to the design of their new cars with Smith insisting that the change was 'far reaching' when it comes to the work that is now going into the 2014-spec cars.

“Fundamentally, the power unit is significantly different,” he told the official F1 website. “It's not as if we've gone from a 3.0-litre V8 to a 3.2-litre V8 - it's a significantly different lump of architecture in terms of the physical size of the internal combustion engine and it also has a relatively big turbocharger assembly associated with it.

“The exhaust configuration - as a result of the turbo installation - is also a big departure from what we currently have. The way in which the turbo installation impacts upon the transmission is significant. We've had many changes of engine configurations since the previous turbo era (which ended at the end of 1988), but this is one that impacts in so many ways.

“At Caterham we buy our gearboxes from Red Bull, but it impacts upon their design and that in turn impacts on installation of clutch assemblies and suspension. It's quite far reaching.

“But bigger than all of that is the cooling challenge. That's probably the thing that, I imagine, has most people up and down the pit lane scratching their heads. It's reasonably easy to come up with a solution that will cool, but to come up with a solution that will cool and give you the optimum aerodynamic performance is the challenge.

“The charged air cooler, for cooling the air from the turbo before it goes into the engine, will, on all of the installations, be quite significant. Physically, the size of the thing will dictate the packaging of everybody's cooling systems. That's the biggest single thing, I think, that's presented itself as a challenge in terms of the overall car architecture.”

Toro Rosso's James Key agreed that cooling would be an issue for teams to deal with next year, but insisted there were other challenges that would need to be faced.

Discuss.

[Jabberwocky]

Cooling being an issue from next year never even entered my head. However they only seem to of spoken to customer teams about the biggedt problem. I would imagine the factory teams would say the whole thing is a problem

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[sagi58]

So... whose idea was this in the first place? Obviously not someone
who actually knows what it takes to completely design an F1 car!!

[What's Burning?]

Um not to be the bearer of bad news but if engines were organic, nature would never create a 10 or 12 cylinder engine. They're simply inefficient when compared to the small displacement turbos.

[Jabberwocky]

It was to make the sport greener and closer to what manufacturers actually build in the real world ie small displacement with turbos.

The down side is that has a Ferrari ever had a small displacement? Or Merc and BMW are in the same boat. I think it was a way of trying to bring Honda and Toyota back. Plus keep Renault happy

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[CookinFlat6]

The original idea to attract manufacturers was 4 cylinder engines. More in line with their expertise. The V6 was a last minute compromise which suits Merc the most.

[What's Burning?]

it seems more and more like LMP1 will be used by F1 suppliers to test bed their engines. The ubiquitous 1.6 liter turbo with a host of energy recovery systems is going to be very good for the sport long term and with the economies of scale, will allow new suppliers back into F1, I'm sure of it. (I hope)

Honda developing Turbo V-6 for Le Mans’ Premier LMP1 Category

[Zekenwolf]

Between Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes, is it not Renault who have the most experience with small turbo engines through the years? If that is the case, will the new rules favour renault powered cars a bit more?

[What's Burning?]

Between Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes, is it not Renault who have the most experience with small turbo engines through the years? If that is the case, will the new rules favour renault powered cars a bit more?

There are quite a bit of components to these engine besides the part with the six cylinders. They are called "power units" for a reason, and the electronic ERS systems are going to be the make/break of their success.

He with the most efficient and reliable power unit will win, at least in the first couple of years until things stabilize for all of the manufacturers.

[CookinFlat6]

Agreed, most engine makers should be able to build to the FIA formula and will have roughly the same results if it was just engine. With the enerygy recovery systems and the ways of using the harvested energy (not the storing off as thats fixed) is where the big diffrentiators will come. I.e do you use excess harvested energy not stored to instantly spool a turbine to improve lag or do you instantly use it somehow to improve the efficiency of the petrol engine.
Most engine engineers not part of any of these teams would not have a clue what exactly each manfacturer is doing, and unlike aero etc thats gotta mean if a team nails it it can have a big advantage until the others catch on.

Renault might be good at small turbos but this stuff is beyond that and more about the new components, electronics, cooling, turbines etc. I think Merc are the only manufacturer to have every needed component maker fully in house. Then maybe Fiat/Ferrari and I would say Renault last

Just my feeling

[What's Burning?]

And then Porsche comes in and bitch slaps everyone else.

[1Lemon]

And then Porsche comes in and bitch slaps everyone else.

I think Citroen needs to give up rally driving and get into the F1 scene

Not really, I can boast that my car won the WRC

[LRW]

Agreed, most engine makers should be able to build to the FIA formula and will have roughly the same results if it was just engine. With the enerygy recovery systems and the ways of using the harvested energy (not the storing off as thats fixed) is where the big diffrentiators will come. I.e do you use excess harvested energy not stored to instantly spool a turbine to improve lag or do you instantly use it somehow to improve the efficiency of the petrol engine.
Most engine engineers not part of any of these teams would not have a clue what exactly each manfacturer is doing, and unlike aero etc thats gotta mean if a team nails it it can have a big advantage until the others catch on.

Renault might be good at small turbos but this stuff is beyond that and more about the new components, electronics, cooling, turbines etc. I think Merc are the only manufacturer to have every needed component maker fully in house. Then maybe Fiat/Ferrari and I would say Renault last

Just my feeling

And correct me if im wrong (As its been known to happen), but if one manufacturer finds a big advantage, its going to be harder for the other teams to work out what that advantage out is; compared to aero, where most things are on display....?

[CookinFlat6]

Thats exactly what I said

Or do you mean the other teams will only have till the engine freeze to gain and after that will be unable to improve?

[LRW]

Thats exactly what I said

Or do you mean the other teams will only have till the engine freeze to gain and after that will be unable to improve?

No I was repeating exactly what you said. I got half way through your post, and responded with my thoughts. And if Id bothered to read on, you had said exactly that!

ha ha, sorry about that.