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By racechick
#369781
Hello vcs316 :wavey: welcome to the madhouse :D
By operaman
#369794
Apart from the comments about Massa having a job (no mention of Kimi), waiting for the "real" Kimi to return, Massa scoring more points at half the cost, the telling comment was this one from an interview where Luca was responding to Kimi's point of view (that his dismissal had to do with Santander).

"Then, we realised that our team needed a driver capable of really getting involved with the engineers, a characteristic that was not part of Kimi's genetic make-up, even though he is an amazingly talented guy."

"We were aware that something else was needed for the way we operate and therefore, we opted for Alonso.

"The role of Santander? Certainly, they are happy, but it is not the sponsors that choose the drivers: we have never operated like that and we never will," he added.


http://www.planet-f1.com/news/3213/5786748

When you say a driver is not what the team needs and pay him $20 million (reports vary on the amount) to go away, do you not think it will be hard to justify his return? You think Kimi's genetic make-up has changed?
By What's Burning?
#369801
Figured I'd share these, as expected they're TG funny and pretty accurate in their assessment so far.
TOP GEARRemember this time last year? F1 on its summer break and the Sunday Afternoon Club resorting to picking over the bones of the first half of the season so that it might make the wait until the second that little bit more bearable? Well, here we go again, eleven half term reports for you to brawl over in the space below. There’s no order — we’re starting with Ferrari — and the grades we awarded last year are back too. Only this time there’s three: one for the team and one for each driver.

So, Ferrari. As I write, Fernando Alonso has still got a job driving a red car, and Luca Di Montezemolo is on the defensive, telling the Italian press he had every right to have gone on the attack last week after his extremely well remunerated number one let the world know he wished his other car wasn’t a Ferrari. And that at the same time his agent let folks know what Alonso really wanted was actually a Red Bull. I wasn’t alone in hearing echoes of Ferrari’s dismissal of Alain Prost and Niki Lauda. Uniquely in F1 Ferrari doesn’t care who it fires, rule number one and all that.

Was Alonso justified? Nah… however thrilling it might be when a scrap goes public, it is just not cool to dis’ your team. Not that I don’t have more than a little sympathy for Alonso who has for four years now carried the team on his shoulders, largely alone. Two wins in the first five races suggested this year’s F138 was to be his reward and that this year would belong to Alonso and Ferrari. Just like it did last year… Only this year the promise has faded even before the trucks rock up at Spa. If anyone is going to challenge Vettel for the title in what’s left of 2013 it is Lewis Hamilton, not Fernando Alonso. Ferrari still has to find the way forward not just this year, but next year and the year after.

So what does it do? Well it needs to forget about Felipe Massa for a start. Not that doing so will necessarily solve anything, though it is worth noting that when Massa’s meandering form did put him ahead of his teammate in qualifying in the latter part of last season and the early part of this, Alonso responded. Replacing Massa however would signal a commitment to rebuilding and Ferrari certainly needs to do that, and do that soon.

Like McLaren it’s hard not to come to the conclusion that Scuderia Ferrari is broken; that its way of doing things, adapted and upgraded to a carbon and computer aided era, nonetheless belongs to the past. Red Bull’s success is not all about Adrian Newey. There are systems in place at Red Bull that just work better, better than McLaren’s, better than Ferrari’s. Just having the money is no longer enough. There’s been a shift in the balance of power this year and it’s Lotus and Mercedes, effectively new teams, unburdened by dogma and protocol that are filling in the wake behind Red Bull.

The F138 is a beautiful single-seater Ferrari and single-seater Ferraris are generally up there somewhere between nine and eleven on the scale of all things good. But the team cannot live on a diet of romance alone. It looks lost this year, since that strategic second place in Canada Alonso no longer looks like a man who can affect a race, he just circulates doing his own thing and hope it works out. And that’s tragic; he doesn’t look like the hero he did last year. The shine has come off him. No wonder it’s spilling out in public. He must be beside himself with frustration as he writes the final chapters of his career from the sidelines and not from the front.

Will Ferrari come back fighting or come back not thinking about F138 and completely dedicated to the 2014 turbo car? And what’s Alonso going to be up to? His Instagram suggests he’s hitting the beach, but I wouldn’t entirely bet against him making a visit to Milton Keynes.

Half term grades

Ferrari: B minus

Alonso: B

Massa: C plus
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By Stephen
#369849
Hello All - New member to this amazing forum, looking forward to contributing actively and meeting fellow F1 fanatics :)


Hello! :thumbup:
By CookinFlat6
#369851
When you say a driver is not what the team needs and pay him $20 million (reports vary on the amount) to go away, do you not think it will be hard to justify his return? You think Kimi's genetic make-up has changed?


You would not have to justify his return if you already have Alonso, who offers everything Kimi doesnt. All you would have to justify is keeping Massa instead of Kimi in the first place and there is a ready made answer for that. Massa's accident.

If Luca brought Kimi back all he is admitting is that Kimi is the best 'number 2' driver, not the best number 1 which is why they let him go and bought him out. And as Ferrari are bigger than any driver they can turn around and get a driver back they let go and he comes running.

Win win for Luca especially if the car has problems next couple of years. Kimi is the only available ace and Ferrari cannot afford a Massa in the other seat in the next few years to come, they will need drivers who can get the points like Kimi has at Lotus.

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that Ferrari snatched Kimi like they sntched Allison, and that this is what caused Alonso to go knocking at Red Bull, and then caused Luca to put him down in public because Alonso has no place to go in reality
By What's Burning?
#369855
We'll see if that hypothesis pans out cookin'. It does niggle a little bit and would explain some of the things we've been seeing but then again it's Ferrari and they're going to do what they're going to do because it suits them not because it suits a sponsor or a driver or the pretense of loyalty to Massa.

I think however that all of this talk is somewhat misplaced. We've seen clearly Massa step up him game, and be there but that's only when the car is competitive. He just doesn't have what Alonso has to do more with an uncompetitive car and that's Ferrari's real issue... the car, not their drivers.
By CookinFlat6
#369857
Yup in this era of limited testing, Ferrari cant outspend on testing to win, all they can do is outspend on staff and hope for the best in the next few years. So they cannot afford the luxury of a Massa or a Button who come into play when your car is the absolute best. They need 2 top aces to compete with the top teams now. Lets face it, Alonso plus Massa has brought no results, close but no cigar, and things are likely to get harder with the new engines and the rise of Merc. To get results they need to improve the car or drivers and its easier to improve the drivers if you have the money.
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By Jabberwocky
#369883
So strangely it is kimi and not alonso that holds all the cards in the silly season. It is odd because most people class alonso as the most rounded driver at the moment.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4
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By sagi58
#369893
We'll see if that hypothesis pans out cookin'. It does niggle a little bit and would explain some of the things we've been seeing but then again it's Ferrari and they're going to do what they're going to do because it suits them not because it suits a sponsor or a driver or the pretense of loyalty to Massa.
There is the theory that Massa's car is being used to test bits and pieces and that he's fine with that!
Not sure if I buy that!!
I do believe it's a case of loyalty gone wrong / misjudgement on the part of Domenicali!!

I think however that all of this talk is somewhat misplaced. We've seen clearly Massa step up him game, and be there but that's only when the car is competitive. He just doesn't have what Alonso has to do more with an uncompetitive car and that's Ferrari's real issue... the car, not their drivers.
Granted, the car is the issue; but, if that's the case, how is it that Massa "magically" steps up his game
when he's at risk of being axed??
If that sounds disloyal, tough!! I'm tired of seeing Ferrari struggle as a team and be able "only" to put
up a fight for the Driver's title! That doesn't mean I don't Massa at Ferrari, it just means I'd prefer he
were given a different job title.
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By sagi58
#369894
So strangely it is kimi and not alonso that holds all the cards in the silly season. It is odd because most people class alonso as the most rounded driver at the moment.

Alonso is the most rounded driver on the grid today; however, there is only one of him!!
Both title can't be won by one driver, even if there is a mathematical possibility.
By LRW
#369909
So strangely it is kimi and not alonso that holds all the cards in the silly season. It is odd because most people class alonso as the most rounded driver at the moment.

Alonso is the most rounded driver on the grid today; however, there is only one of him!!
Both title can't be won by one driver, even if there is a mathematical possibility.


But Sagi, you are talking as if Massa is the issue. To me, the lack of pace, and having only the 4th fastest car, is the issue.
By Hammer278
#369914
So strangely it is kimi and not alonso that holds all the cards in the silly season. It is odd because most people class alonso as the most rounded driver at the moment.

Alonso is the most rounded driver on the grid today; however, there is only one of him!!
Both title can't be won by one driver, even if there is a mathematical possibility.


Umm, the rounded driver part is down to personal conjecture. Ferrari have been vocal about him not really being a great qualifier, and this trend has been apparent since the beginning of his F1 career. So he doesn't have all the boxes ticked either.

Anyway, he is one of the best in the sport today but unfortunately for him his organization doesn't seem to have what it takes anymore to compete at the pointy end regularly. There has to be a restructuring, firstly, a new team boss who recognizes that there are things wrong with the team and need changes. Nothing happening so far, but the old Grandpa of Ferrari exercising his ever-expanding ego and telling his staff to shut up and stop pointing out faults in the team.
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By sagi58
#369917
So strangely it is kimi and not alonso that holds all the cards in the silly season. It is odd because most people class alonso as the most rounded driver at the moment.

Alonso is the most rounded driver on the grid today; however, there is only one of him!!
Both titles can't be won by one driver, even if there is a mathematical possibility.


But Sagi, you are talking as if Massa is the issue. To me, the lack of pace, and having only the 4th fastest car, is the issue.

Possibly, but, then again, you're talking as if this is the first year Massa.A has had problems.
As if, it's the first year that Alonso has had problems with the car, which would negate the fact
that he was the only one giving Vettel a run for his money, this last couple of years.
No, Massa has been an issue for a number of years. Actually, since his accident.

Look, the guy is cute and cuddly, he's sweet and adorable; but, Ferrari doesn't need a
teddy bear, they need another tiger!!
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By sagi58
#369922
Umm, the rounded driver part is down to personal conjecture. Ferrari have been vocal about him not really being a great qualifier, and this trend has been apparent since the beginning of his F1 career. So he doesn't have all the boxes ticked either...
First, all boxes need not be completely shaded in to be "ticked"! Secondly, we all seem to be in agreement that "this" year, it's the car, so I'll hold off on agreeing with you completely, just yet! :headshake:

...his organization doesn't seem to have what it takes anymore to compete at the pointy end regularly. There has to be a restructuring, firstly, a new team boss who recognizes that there are things wrong with the team and need changes...
:yes-180: Domenicali is a "nice" guy, who wants to be everyone's friend. Doesn't work in this cutthroat sport, does it? He may very well be the only one that empathizes enough with Massa to keep him on board, as both are underperforming underdogs.
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