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[What's Burning?]

Okay Sagi... serious question since these threads have been derailed with utter filth.

You're a professed Kimi fan, and there's quite a bit of love loss for Massa if there ever was love in the first place. Massa handily defeated Kimi in 2008 and was more than double ahead in points during the 2009 season when he got dain brammage in Hungary.

I have a difficult time explaining that with anything other than, Kimi was a WDC for Ferrari, and Massa wasn't (almost). I've always been neutral towards Kimi, and certainly respect his race pace, but he's never overwhelmed me, certainly not on Saturdays and his performance in the 2009 season was just about "phoned in" which made me lose quite a bit of respect for him. So I'm curious as to how a tifosi would see it.

[sagi58]

Okay Sagi... serious question since these threads have been derailed with utter filth.

You're a professed Kimi fan, and there's quite a bit of love loss for Massa if there ever was love in the first place. Massa handily defeated Kimi in 2008 and was more than double ahead in points during the 2009 season when he got dain brammage in Hungary.

I have a difficult time explaining that with anything other than, Kimi was a WDC for Ferrari, and Massa wasn't (almost). I've always been neutral towards Kimi, and certainly respect his race pace, but he's never overwhelmed me, certainly not on Saturdays and his performance in the 2009 season was just about "phoned in" which made me lose quite a bit of respect for him. So I'm curious as to how a tifosi would see it.

You're right on all counts!! Although I can't speak for all Tifosi, I can tell you how I see it!
I always found Kimi to be the more interesting of the two, he was always more entertaining
with his comments, especially to the media who was hounding him. HIs attitude reminded me
of Schumi, who basically did what he needed regardless of how many brownie points he could
score doing/saying the "right" thing. Massa, on the other hand, was always the "good boy" who
never put a foot out of place, who seemed to smile and be every one's best friend. Not that there
is anything wrong with that; but, I preferred seeing a "tough guy" with a win at all costs attitude!!

Right after his accident, I could tell there was a "different" Massa on the team. I honestly do not
believe he recovered from it. Period. I admire Ferrari's loyalty to him and the support they have
shown him, as I don't believe he would have gotten that with many other teams, to the extent he
has had their backing. Having said all that, I don't agree with their decision to buy out Kimi's
contract rather than replace Massa.

Maybe it's all about the timing? In retrospect, having watched Massa's painful attempts at coming
back, especially after having lost his one/only chance at the WDC and comparing that to Kimi's
recent form, let alone his gutsy attempt in Rallying, it would seem that Ferrari's loyalty has hurt
them rather than paid them dividends!

Ah, well... Hindsight has 20/20!!

[andrew]

So the Raikkonen to Ferrari rumour is gathering a bit of steam.

[Jabberwocky]

I think the kimi of old had lost his love/mental drive to be in F1. That is why Ferrari moved him on and not Massa. Kimi post championship had lost the fire in his belly. Fire he would not of got back if Massa had made way for Alonso.

I suppose F1 could say about Kimi. "If you love something set it free..."

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[Hammer278]

I think the kimi of old had lost his love/mental drive to be in F1. That is why Ferrari moved him on and not Massa. Kimi post championship had lost the fire in his belly. Fire he would not of got back if Massa had made way for Alonso.

I suppose F1 could say about Kimi. "If you love something set it free..."

Sent from Turing Colossus using Tapatalk 2

If Ferrari really believed Kimi had 'lost the fire' would they have actually paid him a mountain of money NOT to drive in F1? From what I recall, he got paid like 20 mill for NOT taking up a rival seat in F1 for the following year. Which was a crazy stupid thing to do in my view, but I guess Ferrari has lots of money to burn.

[Jabberwocky]

I think the kimi of old had lost his love/mental drive to be in F1. That is why Ferrari moved him on and not Massa. Kimi post championship had lost the fire in his belly. Fire he would not of got back if Massa had made way for Alonso.

I suppose F1 could say about Kimi. "If you love something set it free..."

Sent from Turing Colossus using Tapatalk 2

If Ferrari really believed Kimi had 'lost the fire' would they have actually paid him a mountain of money NOT to drive in F1? From what I recall, he got paid like 20 mill for NOT taking up a rival seat in F1 for the following year. Which was a crazy stupid thing to do in my view, but I guess Ferrari has lots of money to burn.

But how much would it of cost to buy him out of his contract?

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[sagi58]

...I suppose F1 could say about Kimi. "If you love something set it free..."

...From what I recall, he got paid like 20 mill for NOT taking up a rival seat in F1 for the following year...

So much for "free", eh?

In Ferrari's defence, keep in mind that we don't have all the details regarding what went on behind closed doors.

[CookinFlat6]

Would be interesting to see Kimi back at Ferrari, but I cant see whats changed since the last time except maybe partnering Alonso instead of Massa. It could turn out to be a disaster for Kimi, at least he would get paid well.

He could turn out to be the most paid driver in Ferrari history, especially if they had to buy him out again

[myownalias]

The latest rumour that I have heard suggests Raikkonen to Ferrari and Alonso to Red Bull, I don't see Ferrari pitting two top drivers against each other, Ferrari tend to like their 1a and 1b drivers.

[CookinFlat6]

Too true, but with the uncertainty of the next couple of years could be Ferrari see Kimi as the ultimate Massa to go with Alonso and make the team as competitive as possible

Also I cannot understand why RBR would take Alonso on next to Vettel after the carnage he has left behind previous teams. I think it could Kimi and Alonso, it's the type of coup Montezemolo could pull for the fans and to show the team are bigger than drivers, don't harbour grudges etc

[myownalias]

Is Kimi good at giving useful feedback? I always thought of Kimi as a "just let me drive" type of driver, not interested in the development or media side of F1!

[CookinFlat6]

No he is not a team 'leader' like Alonso or MS, and isnt Latin or speak the lingo like Alonso, which is why I reckon Ferrari, if they have really signed Kimi as some are saying, will keep Alonso(and Santanders cash)

[operaman]

A very close friend (a confirmed Alonso fan/stalker) has told me on numerous occasions, that the original plan at Ferrari was for an Alonso/Kimi super-team. According to her sources, this was altered out of loyalty to Massa following his terrible accident. Personally I think a Raikkonen return to Ferrari is unlikely not because of any resentment on his part, but because given what was said by Ferrari officials (read that as Luca) at the time of Kimi's departure, a return would reflect poorly on the Scuderia (read that as Luca). Kimi (in may opinion) cares nothing for politics past or present, and will go to any team that can provide a winning car and a significant pay cheque.

[What's Burning?]

An therein lies the conundrum, Ferrari seemingly can easily deliver on one of those, but not both. Red Bull on the other hand has been delivering both.

[andrew]

Ferrari are calling the reports of Raikkonen joining them as "unfounded" and "without foundation". If Ferrari are to be believed.....

All the reports I've read indicate Raikkonen replacing Alonso as he would be off to Red Bull. If the rumours are to be believed.....