FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Hammer278]

Ok then got my facts a little crossed over there but my point stands, if not made more clear now.

Button and Vettel both passed Hamilton and Webber respectively (Not at the same time, that would be amazing to have some actual racing in F1 sometimes) when both Hammy and Webby had been told that they wouldn't be passed and turned down their engines.

So why is what Button did wrong and what Vettel did right?

In my book both did wrong.

In my book, neither did wrong. They were racing and saw an opportunity and took it, as one is meant to do in a racing situation. It doesn't matter if you're faster or slower than the guy in front, if you can pass you pass or there is no point in taking up a race seat. If a slower driver gets past it's up to the faster driver to retake the position.

Which bloody universe do you live in? If the faster driver (in a particular race) was TOLD by his boss to turn his engine down, and the other guy who was slower (but caught up due to the faster driver following orders) IGNORES his boss and overtakes faster driver, this is okay to you? Wtf man how you even got this far in life is beyond me.

[cheekybru]

Ignoring Team Orders is always wrong, however my issue is with how the team orders are delivered.

In the race you are all talking about, Redbull's radio was stupid, almost pleading, without wanting to say "Do not overtake Mark, Seb" (Probably because Christian was afraid that Seb would ignore a direct team order they used codes, and "this is silly"

Ross Brawn on the other hand was firm, but explained the situation, and Nico was the one that obeyed. (because he understood the situation, but also because he respects the team principle is the boss)

Redbull stink of a team run where everyone is afraid to annoy the little brat that knows he can get his own way all of the time because hes the best driver they've got / have ever had, and it is there own fault.

[Hammer278]

Ignoring Team Orders is always wrong, however my issue is with how the team orders are delivered.

In the race you are all talking about, Redbull's radio was stupid, almost pleading, without wanting to say "Do not overtake Mark, Seb" (Probably because Christian was afraid that Seb would ignore a direct team order they used codes, and "this is silly"

Ross Brawn on the other hand was firm, but explained the situation, and Nico was the one that obeyed. (because he understood the situation, but also because he respects the team principle is the boss)

Redbull stink of a team run where everyone is afraid to annoy the little brat that knows he can get his own way all of the time because hes the best driver they've got / have ever had, and it is there own fault.

Well can you really blame Vettel then...when his boss looks and acts like the library geek who gets his face smashed every Monday by other students...and Brawn looks like the thug who smashed the geek's face in every Monday.

[cheekybru]

Ignoring Team Orders is always wrong, however my issue is with how the team orders are delivered.

In the race you are all talking about, Redbull's radio was stupid, almost pleading, without wanting to say "Do not overtake Mark, Seb" (Probably because Christian was afraid that Seb would ignore a direct team order they used codes, and "this is silly"

Ross Brawn on the other hand was firm, but explained the situation, and Nico was the one that obeyed. (because he understood the situation, but also because he respects the team principle is the boss)

Redbull stink of a team run where everyone is afraid to annoy the little brat that knows he can get his own way all of the time because hes the best driver they've got / have ever had, and it is there own fault.

Well can you really blame Vettel then...when his boss looks and acts like the library geek who gets his face smashed every Monday by other students...and Brawn looks like the thug who smashed the geek's face in every Monday.

But no, I blame Horner

[cheekybru]

Cummon Newey, join the big boys lets test this "too many cooks ruin the soup" theory

[1Lemon]

I wan't a team to hack into other team radios and start giving them fake messages, would add a whole strategic dynamic to the sport.

Or you'd end up with team principles radioing opponents shouting "YOU SUCK!" until they loose concentration and crash.

[What's Burning?]

I wan't a team to hack into other team radios and start giving them fake messages, would add a whole strategic dynamic to the sport.

Or you'd end up with team principles radioing opponents shouting "YOU SUCK!" until they loose concentration and crash.

Shhh... Bernie might get an idea. That's a step away from banana peels.

[Ferrari man 009]

Ross Brawn on the other hand was firm, but explained the situation, and Nico was the one that obeyed. (because he understood the situation, but also because he respects the team principle is the boss)

Very good point. Rosberg was clearly annoyed about the instruction - but the difference between him and Vettel is he reluctantly obeyed the instruction and therefore showed respect to Ross AND all of the employees in the TEAM that had worked very hard to give Nico (and Lewis) a quick car.

[LewEngBridewell]

And Seb made the Grand Prix in Sepang FAR more exciting than it would've been otherwise, if left in Red Bull's hands

[operaman]

Ross Brawn on the other hand was firm, but explained the situation, and Nico was the one that obeyed. (because he understood the situation, but also because he respects the team principle is the boss)

Very good point. Rosberg was clearly annoyed about the instruction - but the difference between him and Vettel is he reluctantly obeyed the instruction and therefore showed respect to Ross AND all of the employees in the TEAM that had worked very hard to give Nico (and Lewis) a quick car.

Someone who understands the concept of TEAM.

[PartsaS]

For me as things have rolled out, ignoring team orders is part of the game.
Thankfully drivers aren't robots or zombies to be programmed to do certain things
they have feelings, passion, anger etc.
So in the heat of the moment, their personality play's a role too.
Most of you will say it's bad for the team, it's a team sport etc
Well it is good for us, and the teams are there to give us, a good show.

A driver is a hero, he risks his life (well not so much nowdays) and he should have the freedom to make his own race. Although Team Orders have become legal they are not mandatory.
Cutting threw chicanes is illegal, disobeying team orders is not.
I remember most of the comments I read at the Vettel - Webber incident were so negative about Vettel... as if they were in C. Horner's shoes. they were acting like religious groups who gather to stone the Sinner.
Well Vettel did disobeyed the orders, and he won the race, and he is ok with his boss and his team, and he is happy to be way above the others in the points table.
They only big drama was Webber's pathetic behaviour after the race.

[racechick]

Ross Brawn on the other hand was firm, but explained the situation, and Nico was the one that obeyed. (because he understood the situation, but also because he respects the team principle is the boss)

Very good point. Rosberg was clearly annoyed about the instruction - but the difference between him and Vettel is he reluctantly obeyed the instruction and therefore showed respect to Ross AND all of the employees in the TEAM that had worked very hard to give Nico (and Lewis) a quick car.

Someone who understands the concept of TEAM.

I love drivers to race each other, intra team battles are great . It's why I don't like it when the team decide early in a race or season that they want one particular driver to win. But in a race, when drivers may be on different strategies, when fuel may be short, when brakes may be overheating etc etc. the drivers have to listen to the team principal. They cant see the info the team can. They are not bigger than the team and would not be there without the team.

[cheekybru]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTc6CAqdDu0 Think this video proves my point, very vague messages so that the world wont see Seb disobey an order

[spankyham]

I don't like the radio communications in F1 with the driver during an event.

[Hammer278]

I don't like the radio communications in F1 with the driver during an event.

Why? I love it! A welcome addition to the event since it brings the audience closer to the racing...especially with so much strategy involved now. I only wish it is real time, not delayed.