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[sagi58]

This but gave me a chuckle though

Worst of all, he had the chance of having Alonso mentor Hamilton, which might have done them
both a world of good, as they could have gelled into a strong pairing!

Welllll... it was definitely a possibility, in retrospect!!

((OK... OK... maybe it wasn't probable!! ))

[Hammer278]

I've never seen Lewis as a "god" otherwise he'd have at least two, perhaps three more championships to his name. In 2007 as a kid to come up with Arguably the best driver on the grid and square off toe to toe was something magical. If that was "clinical" to you then we' surely have a difference of opinion on the word. In 2010 Lewis could have and should have been able to get a title, but his reckless aggression for overtaking and for not giving up a position cost him that year. Far from clinical. In 2011, no one was touching Vettel, yet Lewis tried a win at all cost tactic that further fed the wolves, and it led to him losing out on points to a team mate for the first time in his career, because he wanted to fight for first, not settle for second. Last year he was a transformed driver and perhaps the most fitting of "clinical" as a description, and again this time it wasn't Lewis costing himself a championship, it was his team making it very difficult for him. Even our buddy mnmracer's statistical analysis pointed to Lewis losing out on the most points, so another potential championship eludes him.

You like Bottas, and so do I, but I can't call him exciting to watch race in the way Kobayashi was, so what is it in your opinion that Bottas does that makes him not "clinical"?

Ultimately losing teaches more than wining, and Lewis has learned a lot since 2008 IMO.

[1Lemon]

I've never seen Lewis as a "god" otherwise he'd have at least two, perhaps three more championships to his name. In 2007 as a kid to come up with Arguably the best driver on the grid and square off toe to toe was something magical. If that was "clinical" to you then we' surely have a difference of opinion on the word. In 2010 Lewis could have and should have been able to get a title, but his reckless aggression for overtaking and for not giving up a position cost him that year. Far from clinical. In 2011, no one was touching Vettel, yet Lewis tried a win at all cost tactic that further fed the wolves, and it led to him losing out on points to a team mate for the first time in his career, because he wanted to fight for first, not settle for second. Last year he was a transformed driver and perhaps the most fitting of "clinical" as a description, and again this time it wasn't Lewis costing himself a championship, it was his team making it very difficult for him. Even our buddy mnmracer's statistical analysis pointed to Lewis losing out on the most points, so another potential championship eludes him.

You like Bottas, and so do I, but I can't call him exciting to watch race in the way Kobayashi was, so what is it in your opinion that Bottas does that makes him not "clinical"?

Ultimately losing teaches more than wining, and Lewis has learned a lot since 2008 IMO.

* * (Paraphrased)

We haven't seen enough of Bottas in F1 to make a decision yet, that Williams is too s*** for anyone to shine (Can't polish a turd and all that). Don't get me wrong, people think I dislike Hamilton for some reason (I was branded racist once for questioning a move he made when on another forum, which was rather laughable) I massively respect him, he does seem to be one of those guys to shut up and get on with it and I like that, he doesn't complain like Vettel or Button do when something is a little bit off. He's fast and did have last year written off by his team; he won the moral championship last year.

I can kinda see how people think I dislike drivers, I'm just very picky and am always finding these little things that they did wrong and looking at them in more detail, so I get why people get the wrong impression from me that I dislike drivers; but I do that to all drivers though, even my favorites.

Lewis has changed, the way he behaves and drives, saying he's improved is objective but he seems more relaxed in and out the car now; but I've never really clicked with his driving style, it works well for him but it won't go down in history like the great driving style of aggressive Senna or super smooth Prost and Mansell.

P.S I always hoped that Kobi and Hamilton would be teammates and always start from mid grid because watching them overtake at times is just incredible.

Edit: bit of Bottas in GP3

[youtube]APv_Jz2wNMk[/youtube]

[Jabberwocky]

Lewis has changed this year. Cutting the apron strings has seen him grow intova more complete package. But like for like toe to toe I still think Alonso would beat him

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[sagi58]

Ultimately losing teaches more than wining...

Nicely put!!

[Hammer278]

Lewis has changed this year. Cutting the apron strings has seen him grow intova more complete package. But like for like toe to toe I still think Alonso would beat him

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Like how he beat him in 2007 during Hamilton's rookie season?

[Jabberwocky]

I think there was a lot more going on internally to the team at the time.

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[Hammer278]

I think there was a lot more going on internally to the team at the time.

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Sure...after the Hungarian GP there was a lot of internal stuff. But up till Hungary, everything was fine and dandy. And at that point, Hamilton was leading.

Unless you're suggesting McLaren hired a 2X WDC to lead the team and paid him a huge sum of cash.....and then sabotage him from the outset to help the rookie look good, if so, let's not waste time discussing this.

[CookinFlat6]

I always find it amusing how Lewis uniquely is always judged in his rookie year and since against the most experienced guys at their peak. Lewis faced Alonso when he was in the ascendancy, and now Lewis is coming into his own, yet he is judged by his first few years.

Senna spent his first season crashing because he always went for it. He matured and so is Lewis, yet many are quick to say 'I don't think he is good because he didn't beat Alonso the reigning star convincingly' Which rookie has ever started like that?

And he won and then circumstance, like has happened to Alonso and others have held him back

Let's see what transpires in next couple years with Merc as he reaches his peak

[Jabberwocky]

I was not the one that brought up hamiltons first year.

I just believe that Alonso is a more complete package at the moment. Then Lewis. Then Kimi. Seb has not shown anything special imho

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[sagi58]

I always find it amusing how Lewis uniquely is always judged in his rookie year and since against the most experienced guys at their peak...

Though there is some amount of truth in that; you might take into consideration that in his first year,
his fans/employers declared that Hamilton was the best thing to happen to F1 in a long time, that he
would be breaking any and all records ever set by anyone ever.

Usually, when someone is set on a pedestal, there will be those lining up to knock them off.
Sad; but, true!

[CookinFlat6]

I always find it amusing how Lewis uniquely is always judged in his rookie year and since against the most experienced guys at their peak...

Though there is some amount of truth in that; you might take into consideration that in his first year,
his fans/employers declared that Hamilton was the best thing to happen to F1 in a long time, that he
would be breaking any and all records ever set by anyone ever.

Usually, when someone is set on a pedestal, there will be those lining up to knock them off.
Sad; but, true!

But he was, there is quantifiable and irrefutable proof that he increased global interest, he is the most reported about driver, he has been one of the most bankable marketing draws each year.

You are right though, the only thing he hasn't done is to win the WDC each year since, and that has allowed him to be dragged down to mere mortal level.

However he has played the game and is now in the type of set up he needs to fulfill his promise. F1 isn't about talent alone as he found out at Mclaren, its about playing the game like MS did and he has done this incredibly well, maybe luck but possibly not.

And he is oncourse to be a global brand after F1, which would break the mould, something even MS did not do.

Lewis, Merc and a few WDC and WCCs and you can forget about your Beckhams and Tigers and Bolts.

Ofcourse he needs the titles in a row, just like he needs a few wins in a row from Spa. I already put some money on this at ridiculously long odds

[sagi58]

Lewis, Merc and a few WDC and WCCs and you can forget about your Beckhams and Tigers and Bolts.

Ofcourse he needs the titles in a row, just like he needs a few wins in a row from Spa. I already put some money on this at ridiculously long odds

Good luck to you!!

[Hammer278]

Ofcourse he needs the titles in a row, just like he needs a few wins in a row from Spa. I already put some money on this at ridiculously long odds

I must say, it's looking good....if they can win at Hungary, Spa which is much less of a tyre chewer and super long straights really bodes well for both Mercedes drivers! I'm banking on the first 1-2 for the new silver arrows!

[CookinFlat6]

Cant imagine Seb or Kimi demonstrating this hand eye coordination somehow