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[sagi58]

What's most disgusting is that governments condone this! How?
By not having some kind of reciprocal agreement in place for
"international" citizens!

If criminals can be extradite, if illegal immigrants can be deported,
why can't tax evaders be expected to pay their fair share??

[sagi58]

So you can hand-on-heart tell me, if you earnt a LOT of money, and your accountant said he knows a legal way for you only to pay 5% tax, you would say "no, I wish to pay the full 50% please".

Though it may be legal, does that mean tax "evasion" is moral?
After all, we all use government services (medical, community, etc)
why should the higher income earners get them for free off the backs
of those who don't have the same loopholes to hide in??

[LRW]

So you can hand-on-heart tell me, if you earnt a LOT of money, and your accountant said he knows a legal way for you only to pay 5% tax, you would say "no, I wish to pay the full 50% please".

Though it may be legal, does that mean tax "evasion" is moral?
After all, we all use government services (medical, community, etc)
why should the higher income earners get them for free off the backs
of those who don't have the same loopholes to hide in??

So you definitely wouldn't either?

Plus multimillionaires who evade tax, probably still pay more tax than you? But don't use anymore services - so why should they pay more?

[sagi58]

So you definitely wouldn't either?

Plus multimillionaires who evade tax, probably still pay more tax than you? But don't use anymore services - so why should they pay more?

Percentage-wise, which is the "only" fair way to judge who pays what, I would suggest that I pay more!
As for services, I didn't suggest they pay more, rather that they pay their share. And, if accountants are
finding ways for the ultra-rich not to pay taxes, they aren't paying their fair share.

p.s. I'd like to think that I'd not look for ways to avoid paying for things that I get. Smacks of "stealing"!

[LRW]

So you definitely wouldn't either?

Plus multimillionaires who evade tax, probably still pay more tax than you? But don't use anymore services - so why should they pay more?

Percentage-wise, which is the "only" fair way to judge who pays what, I would suggest that I pay more!
As for services, I didn't suggest they pay more, rather that they pay their share. And, if accountants are
finding ways for the ultra-rich not to pay taxes, they aren't paying their fair share.

p.s. I'd like to think that I'd not look for ways to avoid paying for things that I get. Smacks of "stealing"!

But they are not paying NO tax, they are just paying a low %. There is a big difference.

Im more of a realist. If I earned £2M, and my accountant gave me a choice of paying £886,098 taxes or £100,000, I know exactly which option I would take without feeling its stealing.

[1Lemon]

I really have no problem with a driver moving to Monaco because their not using the services (pollice, health care etc). Jimmy Carr on the other hand lives here, takes all the benefits of living here then doesn't pay his share of taxes. It's the same with companies, I'm not surprised but I am disgusted.

So you can hand-on-heart tell me, if you earnt a LOT of money, and your accountant said he knows a legal way for you only to pay 5% tax, you would say "no, I wish to pay the full 50% please".

Yes, if I lived in this country I would want to contribute my bit.

[LRW]

I really have no problem with a driver moving to Monaco because their not using the services (pollice, health care etc). Jimmy Carr on the other hand lives here, takes all the benefits of living here then doesn't pay his share of taxes. It's the same with companies, I'm not surprised but I am disgusted.

So you can hand-on-heart tell me, if you earnt a LOT of money, and your accountant said he knows a legal way for you only to pay 5% tax, you would say "no, I wish to pay the full 50% please".

Yes, if I lived in this country I would want to contribute my bit.

Then you are a better man than most.

[What's Burning?]

It boils down to greed right... because after all if you're in the tax bracket that you're paying 50% it means that you're earning quite a bit of money.

There are ways to defer taxes but there's a difference between doing something legal to save taxes and like most corporations, doing something unethical, yet legal to not pay taxes. I make a distinction between the two.

[Hammer278]

I have a soft spot for those tycoons evading taxes simply because if I imagine myself being one of them, and I worked my way up the food chain to start something which made me highly successful....using the same bloody resources as everyone else around me, I don't see too much reason to pay that much more to the same government who gave equally to everyone in the country. The way I see it, I deserve the extra share since I worked for it using my own initiative (or contacts, or whatever, in the end I was the beneficiary and the government played no part).

If I was in the high tax bracket, I'd take every effort to evade taxes...legally. If there are illegal ways to do it and I assess the risk of getting caught is worth it I might consider it.

Feel free to hate

[What's Burning?]

I have a soft spot for those tycoons evading taxes simply because if I imagine myself being one of them, and I worked my way up the food chain to start something which made me highly successful....using the same bloody resources as everyone else around me, I don't see too much reason to pay that much more to the same government who gave equally to everyone in the country. The way I see it, I deserve the extra share since I worked for it using my own initiative (or contacts, or whatever, in the end I was the beneficiary and the government played no part).

If I was in the high tax bracket, I'd take every effort to evade taxes...legally. If there are illegal ways to do it and I assess the risk of getting caught is worth it I might consider it.

Feel free to hate

I highlighted the flaw in your thinking, it's a bit naive if you think the government gives equally to everyone. You don't understand the different between rich, and wealthy, and the chances of you ever being wealthy are infinitesimal small. So you're basing your thought process on something that will likely never happen. I hope you do get rich, but wealthy people pee on the rich, maybe you'll find that out one day.

[sagi58]

But they are not paying NO tax, they are just paying a low %. There is a big difference.

Im more of a realist. If I earned £2M, and my accountant gave me a choice of paying £886,098 taxes or £100,000, I know exactly which option I would take without feeling its stealing.

First, considering we're talking about the "ultra-rich" a low % may as well be nothing!

Secondly, looking at your own example you're choosing .5% (that's 1/2 a percentage point) over 44%!
That leaves you with £1.9M, which is 95% of your original income.

Sounds good, until you apply those numbers to the working class, who might be paying 30% because
they're in a different tax bracket! Say they earn £50 000, that translates into £15 000, leaving them
with £35 000, which is 70% of their original income.

Take into consideration the cost of food, housing, clothing (let alone education and entertainment)
and you see how quickly that money disappears. No need for further calculations to determine who
will have a more disposable income after those expenses.

And you don't think that's "stealing"??

((p.s. I'm not advocating Communism; but, there is some room between it and a fair tax system!))

[1Lemon]

It's the classic story I've seen on this forum several times, of the rich and poor going to a pub with the rich getting the 'largest' tax break, but really their getting the least (ish).

[Hammer278]

I have a soft spot for those tycoons evading taxes simply because if I imagine myself being one of them, and I worked my way up the food chain to start something which made me highly successful....using the same bloody resources as everyone else around me, I don't see too much reason to pay that much more to the same government who gave equally to everyone in the country. The way I see it, I deserve the extra share since I worked for it using my own initiative (or contacts, or whatever, in the end I was the beneficiary and the government played no part).

If I was in the high tax bracket, I'd take every effort to evade taxes...legally. If there are illegal ways to do it and I assess the risk of getting caught is worth it I might consider it.

Feel free to hate

I highlighted the flaw in your thinking, it's a bit naive if you think the government gives equally to everyone. You don't understand the different between rich, and wealthy, and the chances of you ever being wealthy are infinitesimal small. So you're basing your thought process on something that will likely never happen. I hope you do get rich, but wealthy people pee on the rich, maybe you'll find that out one day.

Well...if you're including the Illuminati gang, then it changes the discussion....but I'm just basing this on getting rich, and my definition of rich is simply being able to go for a holiday (each month) wherever I want without worrying about my bank balance when I get back.

And as far as the government goes, I don't see how they 'deserve' that extra cash (which I'm probably pulling in from other countries if its an export/import business, office biz, etc) when they didn't really put any extra effort behind my ventures in the first place.

[What's Burning?]

I have a soft spot for those tycoons evading taxes simply because if I imagine myself being one of them, and I worked my way up the food chain to start something which made me highly successful....using the same bloody resources as everyone else around me, I don't see too much reason to pay that much more to the same government who gave equally to everyone in the country. The way I see it, I deserve the extra share since I worked for it using my own initiative (or contacts, or whatever, in the end I was the beneficiary and the government played no part).

If I was in the high tax bracket, I'd take every effort to evade taxes...legally. If there are illegal ways to do it and I assess the risk of getting caught is worth it I might consider it.

Feel free to hate

I highlighted the flaw in your thinking, it's a bit naive if you think the government gives equally to everyone. You don't understand the different between rich, and wealthy, and the chances of you ever being wealthy are infinitesimal small. So you're basing your thought process on something that will likely never happen. I hope you do get rich, but wealthy people pee on the rich, maybe you'll find that out one day.

Well...if you're including the Illuminati gang, then it changes the discussion....but I'm just basing this on getting rich, and my definition of rich is simply being able to go for a holiday (each month) wherever I want without worrying about my bank balance when I get back.

And as far as the government goes, I don't see how they 'deserve' that extra cash (which I'm probably pulling in from other countries if its an export/import business, office biz, etc) when they didn't really put any extra effort behind my ventures in the first place.

What you describe as rich, a rich man would describe as the working middle class and a wealthy man would commit suicide instead of being forced to live under such deplorable conditions.

Watch this informative clip by Elizabeth Warren and tell me if you're really the only reason for that success.
[youtube]i-P-CoSNYaI[/youtube]

[Hammer278]

Nice clip. Let me be more clear...I wouldn't look into evading taxes completely. I just don't see why I need to pay a hell of a lot more than the next guy who's getting an average middle class salary. I'd be paying more sure, but the step up in contributions in almost any developed economy are just crazy in my view.