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[CookinFlat6]

It would be pretty hard to be wrong about an actual quote from Toto. Would be expensive too

http://grandprix247.com/2013/07/04/merc ... tone-test/

[bud]

It's logical from the view point of making it even by giving Mercedes the fourth day of the YDT, but then where is their punishment for breaching testing rules if all things are equal?

[racechick]

The 'punishment' should really stay as was intended, it can't suddenly get worse after the event. Also I think the cars can now test other things than just tyres,.....Mercedes couldn't.
And I think if these tyres are different and going to be used, and are significantly different, Mercedes should have some running on.them.

[spankyham]

The 'punishment' should really stay as was intended, it can't suddenly get worse after the event. Also I think the cars can now test other things than just tyres,.....Mercedes couldn't.
And I think if these tyres are different and going to be used, and are significantly different, Mercedes should have some running on.them.

I guess that is what being "punished" is all about. I always thought people were underestimating the severity of the punishment imposed on Mercedes.

My opinion is the punishment stands and Mercedes cannot be what is defined as the YDT. If the FiA runs a new test on another day for the teams then Mercedes can be included. If it is part of the YDT then IMO the punishment stands and Merc misses out.

[Jabberwocky]

I think it all depends on what the fia release said. If it says the ydt on dates x, y, z then anything above that the team can attend.

If it says the Silverstone test then tough

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[CookinFlat6]

Again people, Merc were not 'punished' for doing something intentional, it was deemed to be a mistake

The idea of missing the YDT was to even up the advantage inadvertently gained

so those who are suggesting that Merc need to suffer beyond equality with the other teams are not understanding what happened at the tribunal

[Hammer278]

Again people, Merc were not 'punished' for doing something intentional, it was deemed to be a mistake

The idea of missing the YDT was to even up the advantage inadvertently gained

so those who are suggesting that Merc need to suffer beyond equality with the other teams are not understanding what happened at the tribunal

Some people just want to watch Mercedes burn. Instead of Batman being the reason, Hamilton is the big one for the haters.

[What's Burning?]

Then it's the FiA acting in not such good faith. The punishment didn't have to be defined did it? Because it's a given definition of what it means to have a YDT. You guys don't have a legal argument against it, and in my opinion the general consensus it's folks being vengeful which given the sport is understandable. For the if you can't do the time then don't do the crime harkeners, you've got to get a better fundamental understanding of what the charge was what the tribunal's judgement was and what the legality of changing the test post facto really means.

They clearly spelled out that they feel that Mercedes did break the requlations but that they would not have done so had Charile, and the FiA's own lawyer not said it was okay for them to proceed with said test. What's so difficult to understand about that? Any argument beyond that says you're afraid of where the momentum is taking Mercedes currently, and that's a good thing.

I think we just let the whole matter go and let the tiresome tire arguments wane.

[vaptin]

Well, people on here keep saying Mercedes gained an advantage - the Mercedes fans actually, funnily though, when it comes to punishment, it was "it was just an accident by Mercedes" whereas the talk before was all about how great it was cos the punishment was minor. . . sorry, I think I've lost credibility in most arguments for Mercedes, there's no way you guys are going to be fair about it, is there?

Merecedes say they don't even want to go to the test anyway:

An FIA statement said Mercedes, who were banned from the young driver test for using their 2013 car in a Pirelli test in May, had "in the interests of the sport accepted to not participate in the (Silverstone) test".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23138397

Lets see if they actually kick up a fuss about it.

[CookinFlat6]

Well, people on here keep saying Mercedes gained an advantage - the Mercedes fans actually, funnily though, when it comes to punishment, it was "it was just an accident by Mercedes"

i had a shotgun analogy earlier. The FIA were dumb enough to leave a grey area and ambiguity (looking down a barrel for a rainbow) Merc made the system more efficient by forcing clarification of the process. All 3 parties paid costs as it was a failure from all 3 parties to proceed in a sportingly efficient manner. Merc who gained an advantage gave up a test to show remorse and to help restore sporting integrity by allowing the other teams redress

If everyone gets a test then its equal although Merc who had a specific problem to address are better off than if no one had a test.

However now we have certain teams who have manipulated the FIA in a quest for vengeance, this means the FIA risk losing the fair image they gained at the tribunal by bending over again for 2 previously molly cuddled teams.

However its all good for any Merc supporter, because its obvious Merc are now able to flex, and are in the ascendancy as far as the FIA, and favours and special relationships etc etc, that Ferrari have had for decades and Red Bull have been enjoying recently

[vaptin]

Not really, the test was clearly changed because of the tyre problems. It's actually, good the FIA did something to address the issue.

[spankyham]

I said at the time that people ascribed too much benefit to the tire test Merc did. Yes it would have helped them with their car development and tire management, but it wasn't ground breaking stuff IMO. I also said missing out on the YDT was a much harsher punishment than most people thought.

Even from a Merc perspective you might look at this as they gambled on a grey area and got away without loosing points. But if they had their time again they would forgo the Barcelona test and do the YDT. In other words, they gambled and lost.

Today will be a real chance to see exactly where Merc are in terms of tire management. For the past few races tire problems have been masked by Pirelli's ultra conservative compound selection. The first 10 laps in Germany will tell us a lot.

[CookinFlat6]

If Merc can suddenly race without overheating tyres which then permanently lose all performance, then the problem has been solved to a degree. We have only seen Merc do this so far at Silverstone. Therefore compared to previous high speed flowing circuits, they have solved a problem

I believe they had a particular issue which they fixed at the test (inadvertently ofcourse), and the cost (YDT i.e other teams gaining testing mileage) is acceptable, because no other competitor stands to gain the same incremental advantage, cos non of them had a specific problem costing raceday performance relative to 1 lap speed

The latest tyres have brought Lotus Ferrari and RBR back in line, but Merc have still solved a particular issue that they needed testing to solve. No different to any other team in time exploiting grey areas to pursue a particular solution

Merc were happy to forgoe the YDT, they suggested it. However any punitive outcome as a result of the other 2 teams seeking to go beyond the law will be contested. And I am sure Merc will prevail

Put it this way, I have never heard even once about RB misjudging the line regarding grey area regs. The DD of 2009 comes to mind when he actually warns the FIA of the loophole he intends to exploit

[What's Burning?]

Today will be a real chance to see exactly where Merc are in terms of tire management. For the past few races tire problems have been masked by Pirelli's ultra conservative compound selection. The first 10 laps in Germany will tell us a lot.

You really think the softs (with two or three qualifying laps on them) will last ten laps?

[Hammer278]

I said at the time that people ascribed too much benefit to the tire test Merc did. Yes it would have helped them with their car development and tire management, but it wasn't ground breaking stuff IMO. I also said missing out on the YDT was a much harsher punishment than most people thought.

Even from a Merc perspective you might look at this as they gambled on a grey area and got away without loosing points. But if they had their time again they would forgo the Barcelona test and do the YDT. In other words, they gambled and lost.

Today will be a real chance to see exactly where Merc are in terms of tire management. For the past few races tire problems have been masked by Pirelli's ultra conservative compound selection. The first 10 laps in Germany will tell us a lot.

Again, wishful thinking. If as some people suggest, that Merc gained from that tyre test...well then they did what they wanted to during that 3 day test Pirelli test or not. Those 3 days of data and information has been available to them since the test...while the rest are still 'waiting' for it, and they'll get it in 2 weeks time. Meanwhile, Mercedes has put that knowledge to good use about a month earlier in terms of developments and channeling the car towards where it should be.

Still a WIN it looks like to me.