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[stonemonkey]

Massa's tyre failed just before the accused kerb, if the proximity of Hamiltons and Massas blow outs is significant then it's something other than that kerb.

[spankyham]

Massa's tyre failed just before the accused kerb, if the proximity of Hamiltons and Massas blow outs is significant then it's something other than that kerb.

That's not necessarily true. A cut to a tire will not result in immediate failure. It depends on how deep and rupturing the damage is and, it may well take multiple hits.

I agree the kerb in itself was probably not the only factor, but, it is also patently obvious that the sharpness and size of that edge along with the high speed nature of location and the sliding lateral forces going through the tire at the time it would hit that point make it clear significant damage would be done.

[LRW]

Massa's tyre failed just before the accused kerb, if the proximity of Hamiltons and Massas blow outs is significant then it's something other than that kerb.

That's not necessarily true. A cut to a tire will not result in immediate failure. It depends on how deep and rupturing the damage is and, it may well take multiple hits.

I agree the kerb in itself was probably not the only factor, but, it is also patently obvious that the sharpness and size of that edge along with the high speed nature of location and the sliding lateral forces going through the tire at the time it would hit that point make it clear significant damage would be done.

This is the way that I look at it. We know the following:

A) The kerb conforms to FiA standards (according to Silverstone and the BDRC, and even though I have seen no official documentation from the FiA, I am confident they are telling the truth).
B) The kerb has driven over 1000s of times this weekend alone, by all different classes of racing car, with no other instances.
C) The kerb has never been an issue before this year, and has no changes to it since last year.

So even if the kerb may have damaged the tyre, and caused the tyres to explode, it is the tyre that is not up to standard to meet normal F1 driving practices (i.e. riding the kerb)

If the teams put balloons on as tyres, and drove over the kerb and they blew, we wouldnt be blaming the kerb, we'd be blaming the fact they were driving on balloons.

I dont know who put the spotlight on the kerb, if it was Pirelli, or the teams themselves - but whoever did is making some people look in the wrong direction.

Look, over there, a badger with a gun......*

*i tried to find a clip on youtube and failed

[stonemonkey]

providing the whole lot don't explode.

Good thing Mr. Chubby isn't driving in F1 anymore then: could you imagine the amounts of lard and half-digested burgers the marshals would have to scrape off the circuit???

He'd explode his pirellis the moment he stepped into the car.

Why did they build them that way in the first place?

Let Stonemonkey in there with a grinder and a couple of six packs over the weekend and problem solved.

I'll bet there's a Stein Affen doing just that right now.

[darwin dali]

providing the whole lot don't explode.

Good thing Mr. Chubby isn't driving in F1 anymore then: could you imagine the amounts of lard and half-digested burgers the marshals would have to scrape off the circuit???

He'd explode his pirellis the moment he stepped into the car.

Why did they build them that way in the first place?

Let Stonemonkey in there with a grinder and a couple of six packs over the weekend and problem solved.

I'll bet there's a Stein Affen doing just that right now.

[Hammer278]

So the fact that Mercedes didn't use the well known trick in Monaco means their win had nothing to do with the testing? Somebody go tell Horner.

No, if you look at the image posted Mercedes did use it at Monaco and did not use it at Silverstone

this is parc ferme at Silverstone.

[stonemonkey]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 14745.html

Even though the 2013 high-performance steel-belted version is completely safe when used correctly, the Kevlar-belted version is easier to manage and as long as there is no system in place which allows us to enforce tyre related specifications, like tyre pressures or camber, the incorrect use of which were contributing factors of the tyre failures in Silverstone, we prefer to bring a less sophisticated tyre. From the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards there will be a completely new range of tyres, combining the characteristics of our 2012 tyres with the increased performance of the 2013 specification.

So no limits on pressures or cambers and no mention of stopping them switching the tyres. Could the FIA demand that tyres be used the right way round?

[spankyham]

this is parc ferme at Silverstone.

That's also a really good catch. I was aware of quite a bit of discussion on the barcode on the tire (on another forum). I also know the teams brand/mark the tires themselves. What makes me doubt the barcodes is there is no obvious reason I can see or have read for swapping fronts as they are kevlar belted.

[spankyham]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2013/7/14745.html

Even though the 2013 high-performance steel-belted version is completely safe when used correctly, the Kevlar-belted version is easier to manage and as long as there is no system in place which allows us to enforce tyre related specifications, like tyre pressures or camber, the incorrect use of which were contributing factors of the tyre failures in Silverstone, we prefer to bring a less sophisticated tyre. From the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards there will be a completely new range of tyres, combining the characteristics of our 2012 tyres with the increased performance of the 2013 specification.

So no limits on pressures or cambers and no mention of stopping them switching the tyres. Could the FIA demand that tyres be used the right way round?

I think this is just another manifestation of why Pirelli have been a very poor supplier to F1 since their arrival. They just don't seem willing to take ownership of their responsibilities. Rather they constantly point the finger at others. For two years they have pointed the finger at the FiA saying they have "instructed them" on how to make the tire. Now they "blame" teams for not using the tires the "right" way.

The tire is their product - no-one else owns their product. Like every company and business you can't be all things to all people - Ford learned that lesson with the Edsel. My advise to Pirelli - in the words of Chopper (the Ronnie Johns kind) "Harden the f up"

(beware there is some colorful language in this)
[youtube]unkIVvjZc9Y[/youtube]

[What's Burning?]

Well, toe and camber and pressures are the way to extract the most performance out of whatever tire Pirelli provides. For the tire manufacturer to made demands of the teams on what setting they can use is ridiculous. The tire is a part of the suspension, might as well have Pirelli dictate what type of strut or torsion bar the teams can use.

If the tires work better reversed then there's no way that the teams will give up that advantage until Pirelli provides a tire that works. Hungary will reshuffle things, I'm pretty convinced of that but my suspicion is that we won't see some of the midfield teams as close to the sharp end as they have been, which is in a way sad to see but this has been a fiasco from the beginning and as much as I blame Pirelli for their lack of ownership of their product, I blame the FiA for the ridiculous request and their ridiculous instance of not allowing Pirelli to test the tires. I believe Pirelli given the time to test would have come back and told Bernie to go fvck himself.

[Jabberwocky]

It is sort of related to this topic,

on the drive into work this morning Ron Dennis was being interviewed on the radio, not sure if it was a slip of the tongue or not.

When he was asked about the tires at he British GP he said something along the lines of

"We have spoken to Bridgestone about future tyres and now have no concerns, the tyres we have this year, we have been promised that they are no longer a safety risk by Pirelli."

Now is it because he is used to thinking tyres and using the word Bridgestone from his team principle days or is it a case of something is going on?

[What's Burning?]

If Bridgestone come back we'll the a massive media and perhaps courtroom dealings between Pirelli and F1. With each side trying to throw the other under the bus. Any high profile tire manufacturer can make the rubber necessary for the sport. It's the person at Pirelli signing off to go with Bernie's hairbrain idea of five lap tires that should be gotten rid of.

[spankyham]

Given that the tire change eliminates any perceived problems with the tires, shouldn't Pirelli revisit the tire choices for the upcoming and future races and use a lot more of the softer compound tires?

[stonemonkey]

In a note sent to the teams on Friday, F1 race director Charlie Whiting said: "For safety reasons, we have been asked by Pirelli to ensure that the tyres on all cars are run under the conditions listed below.

"It will be the responsibility of each team to satisfy the FIA technical delegate that the cars comply with the following requirements at all times."

The note added that minimum starting pressures front and rear will be 16psi, the minimum stabilised running front pressure will be 20psi, while at the rear it will be 19psi.

The maximum negative camber at the front will be four degrees, while at the rear it will be 2.5 degrees.

Furthermore, he said: "Front and rear tyres must be used on the side of the car for which they were originally designated (no swapping from side-to-side.)"

Now it is going on through the FIA.

[spankyham]

Good pick-up sm Here's a copy of the release....