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[spankyham]

Mercedes can argue that for safety reasons they need to also test

Funny Mercedes weren't arguing the other teams needed to test when they were testing at Barcelona ..... hmmmm

And now its clear why Pirelli are the only tyre maker left in F1, the others didnt want anything to do with the lunacy of making your own product worse than it is

Pirelli have enthusiastically thrown themselves into the politics of F1. As so many others have pointed out, they could simply have said no to the FiA. They also could have stayed at arms length from all teams and maintained their testing with their own car at their own tracks. If they wanted to make the car a little faster they could have modified it to have more DF by simply making wings etc bigger or not rev limiting their donks - their test car never had to comply with FiA race regulations and this fur-fey about needing a 2013 spec car to match times is patently silly.

[spankyham]

Any substance here or is it all tin hats and grassy knolls?

Pirelli changed tyres without consent at Silverstone - report

F1's tyre scandal could be set to deepen yet further, as a Spanish sports newspaper claims Pirelli - already under reprimand for 'test-gate' - blatantly broke the rules.

Marca correspondent Marco Canseco reports that, prior to the tyre-explosive British grand prix, F1's official supplier changed the construction of its 2013 tyre without the knowledge or the consent of the FIA or the teams.

"At worst, it jeopardised the lives of the drivers," Canseco said, referring to the spate of spectacular tyre failures at the British grand prix that have thrown the sport into crisis.

Marca said the tyres used at Silverstone had a completely new structure, with a layer of kevlar included in the internal steel-belt.

Earlier, teams including Lotus, Force India and Ferrari vetoed the introduction of the purely kevlar-belted tyres, due to the rule requiring unanimity for mid-season changes.

Canseco said he discovered Pirelli's breach when Sauber and McLaren sent team personnel out to the scene of Sunday's tyre explosions, only to discover kevlar shards among the debris.

Pirelli's Paul Hembery denies the charge.

"I can assure you that the tyres (at Silverstone) were the same construction as the ones used in Barcelona," he said.

Reacting to F1's new tyre crisis, the FIA has agreed to open up the forthcoming three-day young driver test at Silverstone to include the use of race drivers for tyre development.

"The test may also be extended by one day," read a statement issued by the Paris federation.

Mercedes, however, remains banned from the test, even though team director Toto Wolff expressed concerns about what the other teams will be allowed to do.

"If it is a pure tyre test, I'm all for it," he is quoted by Germany's Sport Bild.

The FIA also said it will seek the World Motor Sport Council's consent to allow Pirelli to introduce new specifications during the season without the need for unanimity.

"In the meantime," the governing body added, "the FIA has asked Pirelli for an assurance that there will be no repetition of the tyre problems at this weekend's German grand prix or at subsequent grands prix."

If that guarantee is not forthcoming, it is possible drivers will boycott the Nurburgring.

"I don't think that will happen," Bernie Ecclestone told the BBC.

But McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh insists: "There is that danger (of boycott), if it is not certain that it is safe.

"But this is not what we want for F1. We had these problems in Indianapolis (in 2005) and it was terrible for the sport.

"This is not the time to blame anyone," he is quoted by Auto Hebdo, "we need to work together and find a solution."

The Telegraph reports that Pirelli will "almost certainly" use its safer kevlar tyres this weekend.

"We would support this," Lotus boss Eric Boullier, who previously blocked the introduction of the kevlar tyres on sporting grounds, is quoted by AFP news agency.

"Safety is the primary concern," he insisted.

F1 chief executive Ecclestone confirmed: "They (Pirelli) can change them (the tyres).

"(FIA president) Jean (Todt) agreed with that and I told Pirelli."

Influential French sports daily L'Equipe headlined that the sport is "in tatters" after Silverstone, but the most damage has been to Pirelli's image.

"Fortunately they (Pirelli) don't make condoms," joked German tennis legend Boris Becker, according to Welt newspaper.

Ferrari's Stefano Domenicali thinks the Nurburgring will be a "less stressful" circuit for tyres than high-speed Silverstone.

[darwin dali]

Mercedes broke the rules got caught and have to pay the punishment. If you can not do the time don't do the crime. The rules now say that race drivers can do this test. No point crying over spilt milk. Merc will have how many races with 1Mm on extra help? When the other teams get the same they will all advance at the same time.

I honestly swear that some people one this forum would swear black is white if there chosen team/driver told them to.

It is worse than dealing with religious fanatics!

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[spankyham]

Mercedes broke the rules got caught and have to pay the punishment. If you can not do the time don't do the crime. The rules now say that race drivers can do this test. No point crying over spilt milk. Merc will have how many races with 1Mm on extra help? When the other teams get the same they will all advance at the same time.

I honestly swear that some people one this forum would swear black is white if there chosen team/driver told them to.

It is worse than dealing with religious fanatics!

Sent from Turing Colossus using Tapatalk 2

What, you weren't expecting a sort of ..... Spanish Inquisition!

[CookinFlat6]

Funny Mercedes weren't arguing the other teams needed to test when they were testing at Barcelona ..... hmmmm

That was before 5 blowouts in one race

[spankyham]

Funny Mercedes weren't arguing the other teams needed to test when they were testing at Barcelona ..... hmmmm

That was before 5 blowouts in one race

Very convenient for Mercedes then. The safety issues that Mercedes were concerned about before Silverstone only needed one team to test with current car and drivers BUT after Silverstone, all teams need to test and its perfectly fair that Mercedes punishment should just be forgotten. What a stroke of luck that is for Mercedes
Sadly for their fans it won't happen, Mercedes did the crime and they will do the time.

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[CookinFlat6]

Ultimately I think Merc have come out of all this the winners.

Even if the others test without Merc all they will be gaining is a better understanding of the new tyres Merc already tested.

Merc had a particular problem to solve which they have, so its much better for Merc, who had a big problem, for all the teams to get a test as they had a lot more to gain.

The cars that were already good with the fragile tyres were already also good on the previous tyres. If Merc dont complain much it will be a very good indicator. And Ross has just said very confidently that Merc are serious contenders for the title this year

The kevlar lined tyres are said to have a lower operating temp and conducted away excess heat better than the steel lined ones. So the teams and drivers who cant warm up their tyres quick enough, Lotus etc could take a step backwards with Merc gaining even more than RBR

In Brawn confidimus (In Brawn we trust)

[What's Burning?]

I'm certain Mercedes has nothing to complain about in regards to the change of drivers to be used at the YDT. They were found guilty and a punishment was meted out. The fact that external circumstances change the punishment will not ever be a reason to change the punishment. If it rains every day of the YDT will Mercedes be suggesting the other teams get another 3 day test because they got three dry days for their testing. Ferrari and Lotus will be hoping for cold days, Red Bull will want hot, some teams will get better luck in what the weather serves up. But they will have to play with the cars they are dealt.

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I posted this one the other tire thread we've got going on but tires have been the topic of the year. I do think that Mercedes LEGALLY do have something to complain about.

Over on ESPNF1 FIA rips up its own rule book the quoted part below is what Mercedes needs to take issue with. They can't change the specification of the rubber mid season and NOT allow Mercedes to test. I'd like to see Merc file a formal protest against it if they're excluded. You can't pass a judgement and then change the price of the judgement after the fact. At the very least Mercedes would have to be given a 1 day private test with the new compounds and the 2013 car to bring things back to what the tribunal ruling was.

That would be like having a court order you to pay $1000 Dollars and then a week later telling you that you have to pay £1000 Pounds.

With no time to test ahead of this weekend's German Grand Prix and the FIA has asked Pirelli for an assurance that there will be no repetition of the tyre problems at the Nurburgring.

To allow the changes the FIA World Motor Sport Council will have to change its own regulations regarding testing and also to allow Pirelli to change the specification of the tyres mid-season without the unanimous agreement of the teams.

[CookinFlat6]

They can't change the specification of the rubber mid season and NOT allow Mercedes to test.

bingo, for safety reasons.

Also how bad would it look if the other teams tested the post Hungary tyres, Merc did not and then had blowouts.

Hmmn, looks like Ross might be ordering a ton of salt soon (to rub in certain wounds)

[1Lemon]

Merc learnt to swap the tyres around. Pirelli are partly blaming that for the blow out. Enough said.

[Hammer278]

Mercedes broke the rules got caught and have to pay the punishment. If you can not do the time don't do the crime. The rules now say that race drivers can do this test. No point crying over spilt milk. Merc will have how many races with 1Mm on extra help? When the other teams get the same they will all advance at the same time.

I honestly swear that some people one this forum would swear black is white if there chosen team/driver told them to.

It is worse than dealing with religious fanatics!

Sent from Turing Colossus using Tapatalk 2

I just saw this..

I absolutely agree with your bolded part. Mercedes were ready to do the 'time' and had no appeals going on for it, but now the "TIME" has changed. I mean how would you feel if you were caught for speeding and the officer hands you a $300 ticket and then the law of the road changes because some drunk lunatic sped and caused a huge pileup in the state, and anyone caught speeding would now be jailed for 5 years. You get a call from the station and they ask you what size your orange overalls should be and your first question is? "When did this change take place?" "Sir, it happened after your crime, but if you did not want to do this time you never should have done the crime".

Now, how STUPID does that sound? You going to jail with a smile on your face?

[Jabberwocky]

I disagree, if you commit a crime eg take drugs, then that became legalised, and the criminal was in rehab (punishment) then would they release that person from rehab or would they have to finish the punishment?

[darwin dali]

I disagree, if you commit a crime eg take drugs, then that became legalised, and the criminal was in rehab (punishment) then would they release that person from rehab or would they have to finish the punishment?

Lol! I'm just picturing Brawn as a run-down crack cocaine addict standing at a street corner and hustling passers-by for some money for his habit

[CookinFlat6]

I find that I have to slim him down considerably first in my mind

[Jabberwocky]

I disagree, if you commit a crime eg take drugs, then that became legalised, and the criminal was in rehab (punishment) then would they release that person from rehab or would they have to finish the punishment?

Lol! I'm just picturing Brawn as a run-down crack cocaine addict standing at a street corner and hustling passers-by for some money for his habit

I always assumed it was because when he walked into a restaurant people thought he was ordering when he introduced himself...
What was that sir! "Lots of Prawns"?