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[spankyham]

All in all the report is a very good read, and I think the one good thing to come out of this is that the tribunal did a really good job, and IMO, given the facts, their decision is reasonable.

Having said that, if I were a boss of any of the other teams I'd be doing my best to get my testing, with my current car, underway as soon after Silverstone as possible. Do 3 days of testing with your current drivers at the wheel. As well as the test you also get to receive the Pirelli trackside engineers reports from all the testing. Best of all you can do it in complete secrecy (closed track and no FiA or other teams there to watch). All you give up is the young drivers test - that's a great deal really.

But to get the same punishment as Merc, you'd need to follow the same procedure as Merc, and as soon as you approach Charlie, he'd be like... "Nope!! No way, no comment, Im not getting involved!"

I'd think, on reading the decision, that they (FiA/Charlie) would be completely locked into giving the same answer they gave to Merc

[What's Burning?]

All in all the report is a very good read, and I think the one good thing to come out of this is that the tribunal did a really good job, and IMO, given the facts, their decision is reasonable.

Having said that, if I were a boss of any of the other teams I'd be doing my best to get my testing, with my current car, underway as soon after Silverstone as possible. Do 3 days of testing with your current drivers at the wheel. As well as the test you also get to receive the Pirelli trackside engineers reports from all the testing. Best of all you can do it in complete secrecy (closed track and no FiA or other teams there to watch). All you give up is the young drivers test - that's a great deal really.

But to get the same punishment as Merc, you'd need to follow the same procedure as Merc, and as soon as you approach Charlie, he'd be like... "Nope!! No way, no comment, Im not getting involved!"

I'd think, on reading the decision, that they (FiA/Charlie) would be completely locked into giving the same answer they gave to Merc

But you're missing the point here... they'd have to be approached by Pirelli to do the testing for a stated reason. Think that's going to happen?

[CookinFlat6]

The regulations are vague always, to allow the FIA leeway in fixing the show

The international tribunal is Lawyer lead and so it's even better for Merc because any lawyer will look at F1 rule wording etc and if there is any ambiguity or even a slim chance of misleading info swapped between FIA and Merc they as lawyers and not showmen have to give merc benefit of doubt

And it's been said that tyres are so important that understanding them can be a second or two advantage, then it makes sense that if Merc get away with it there is a big pay off.

Ferrari did their own test and the next race were both on podium with even a massa looking super fast.

Merc do a test with Nico and we saw the result in Monaco quali confidence which was masked in the race, I really see the Mercs taking a big step forward here and at Silverstone with the 'new' tyres

Also didn't the boss of Daimler talk about thinking outside the box to solve the tyre issue? I'll bet there is a plan here, we seen the potential cost, where is the payoff?

So in light of the result (not that there was any doubt an independent tribunal could find Merc guilty of intent to break the rules) can we now look forward to Merc reaping the rewards without worrying about double jeopardy?

Can they now suddenly become good on the tyres and start winning with impunity.

I think so

[spankyham]

All in all the report is a very good read, and I think the one good thing to come out of this is that the tribunal did a really good job, and IMO, given the facts, their decision is reasonable.

Having said that, if I were a boss of any of the other teams I'd be doing my best to get my testing, with my current car, underway as soon after Silverstone as possible. Do 3 days of testing with your current drivers at the wheel. As well as the test you also get to receive the Pirelli trackside engineers reports from all the testing. Best of all you can do it in complete secrecy (closed track and no FiA or other teams there to watch). All you give up is the young drivers test - that's a great deal really.

But to get the same punishment as Merc, you'd need to follow the same procedure as Merc, and as soon as you approach Charlie, he'd be like... "Nope!! No way, no comment, Im not getting involved!"

I'd think, on reading the decision, that they (FiA/Charlie) would be completely locked into giving the same answer they gave to Merc

But you're missing the point here... they'd have to be approached by Pirelli to do the testing for a stated reason. Think that's going to happen?

Yes, because Pirelli have been told, and now its committed to precedent through this decision, that they must give all other teams the same opportunity Merc was given. So, I'd be certain that if a team felt testing for 3 days with this years car and current drivers was better value than doing the young drivers test then they'd be assured they could do it, and they would also be bound, by precedent, to get the same treatment as Merc. And, remember, they would have to be given all the data from Pirelli from their trackside engineers - that looks attractive to me, I guess the teams just have to decide which would be better for them.

[Hammer278]

In a way though, he grabbed the opportunity and Redbull didn't. Check out this link.

http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/111971.html

Merc did get an advantage, and got away with it almost scot free. Redbull and Ferrari just couldn't bear with it and tried to shoot them down, Horner especially wasting his time in a jet plane to cure his misery...and now he's flying back even more miserable.

I bet if it was Ferrari or RedBull who had done this, you'd be up in arms....

Well yeah but I'd have to live with it if the team bosses of those teams grabbed the opportunity. Mercedes did not cheat in any form, they simply bent the rules as much as they could using Pirelli as an excuse and got away with it. Ferrari and Redbull have gotten away with much more.

[1Lemon]

While I feel that the penalty that Merc got wasn't enough by far, I think this was the kick in the face the FiA needed to reinstate testing; which can only be a good thing.

[spankyham]

The regulations are vague always, to allow the FIA leeway in fixing the show

The international tribunal is Lawyer lead and so it's even better for Merc because any lawyer will look at F1 rule wording etc and if there is any ambiguity or even a slim chance of misleading info swapped between FIA and Merc they as lawyers and not showmen have to give merc benefit of doubt

And it's been said that tyres are so important that understanding them can be a second or two advantage, then it makes sense that if Merc get away with it there is a big pay off.

Ferrari did their own test and the next race were both on podium with even a massa looking super fast.

Merc do a test with Nico and we saw the result in Monaco quali confidence which was masked in the race, I really see the Mercs taking a big step forward here and at Silverstone with the 'new' tyres

Also didn't the boss of Daimler talk about thinking outside the box to solve the tyre issue? I'll bet there is a plan here, we seen the potential cost, where is the payoff?

So in light of the result (not that there was any doubt an independent tribunal could find Merc guilty of intent to break the rules) can we now look forward to Merc reaping the rewards without worrying about double jeopardy?

Can they now suddenly become good on the tyres and start winning with impunity.

I think so

I would think the answer should be yes. Although, I don't think it will be long before all teams ask for the Pirelli trackside data that was given to Merc be given to all teams.

[Hammer278]

Yes, because Pirelli have been told, and now its committed to precedent through this decision, that they must give all other teams the same opportunity Merc was given. So, I'd be certain that if a team felt testing for 3 days with this years car and current drivers was better value than doing the young drivers test then they'd be assured they could do it, and they would also be bound, by precedent, to get the same treatment as Merc. And, remember, they would have to be given all the data from Pirelli from their trackside engineers - that looks attractive to me, I guess the teams just have to decide which would be better for them.

Pirelli's test with Mercedes was a Pirelli test. Where does it say in light of this decision that Pirelli has to now give 3 days to all other teams? Unless I misread your comment....from now onwards it would be a 'teams test' if the same thing happened since Pirelli don't need about 10000km worth of testing to know what they need to construct in 2014 or whenever.

[spankyham]

Yes, because Pirelli have been told, and now its committed to precedent through this decision, that they must give all other teams the same opportunity Merc was given. So, I'd be certain that if a team felt testing for 3 days with this years car and current drivers was better value than doing the young drivers test then they'd be assured they could do it, and they would also be bound, by precedent, to get the same treatment as Merc. And, remember, they would have to be given all the data from Pirelli from their trackside engineers - that looks attractive to me, I guess the teams just have to decide which would be better for them.

Pirelli's test with Mercedes was a Pirelli test. Where does it say in light of this decision that Pirelli has to now give 3 days to all other teams? Unless I misread your comment....from now onwards it would be a 'teams test' if the same thing happened since Pirelli don't need about 10000km worth of testing to know what they need to construct in 2014 or whenever.

If a team decided they wanted to do the same, then, this decision has enshrined that their was an obligation to give all teams the same opportunity. So, I think any team could do the testing with current drivers and cars. Yes, to your comment that it would have to be conducted by Pirelli. But I don't think that would be a problem to any team because Pirelli would also be obliged, (under the same decision to treat all teams equally) therefore Pirelli would have to hand over to the team all their engineers trackside data from the test. I'm sure the big teams will be weighing up this option now.

[Ferrari man 009]

Mercedes got off lightly, could and possibly should have lost some constructors points.

So should have the scuderia.

Why should they? the Ferrari test was legal, but right now I bet they regret not doing it with a 2013 car if that is all they would have got!

[What's Burning?]

Yes, because Pirelli have been told, and now its committed to precedent through this decision, that they must give all other teams the same opportunity Merc was given.

Where does it say that in the ruling?

Should Mercedes and all other teams also get the same testing opportunity offered to Ferrari?

What's at issue here is Pirelli and Mercedes using a 2013 spec car for a Pirelli test, nothing else is an issue here folks. When the FiA is asked again by a team to do so, they have the precedence to say no, because it's against the regulations. End of story. The reason the ruling came to be is because the FiA screwed up by saying yes to Mercedes... it's not likely they'll do it again.

[1Lemon]

Yes, because Pirelli have been told, and now its committed to precedent through this decision, that they must give all other teams the same opportunity Merc was given. So, I'd be certain that if a team felt testing for 3 days with this years car and current drivers was better value than doing the young drivers test then they'd be assured they could do it, and they would also be bound, by precedent, to get the same treatment as Merc. And, remember, they would have to be given all the data from Pirelli from their trackside engineers - that looks attractive to me, I guess the teams just have to decide which would be better for them.

Pirelli's test with Mercedes was a Pirelli test. Where does it say in light of this decision that Pirelli has to now give 3 days to all other teams? Unless I misread your comment....from now onwards it would be a 'teams test' if the same thing happened since Pirelli don't need about 10000km worth of testing to know what they need to construct in 2014 or whenever.

Also if Pirelli have to organise that test for all teams, that'll be stupid expensive if they have to do separate 3 day tests for each team.

[Hammer278]

If a team decided they wanted to do the same, then, this decision has enshrined that their was an obligation to give all teams the same opportunity. So, I think any team could do the testing with current drivers and cars. Yes, to your comment that it would have to be conducted by Pirelli. But I don't think that would be a problem to any team because Pirelli would also be obliged, (under the same decision to treat all teams equally) therefore Pirelli would have to hand over to the team all their engineers trackside data from the test. I'm sure the big teams will be weighing up this option now.

Err what? The thing is the teams will have to be waiting by the phone for the call from Pirelli instead of the other way around. And that call isn't going to come anytime soon since Pirelli had to go through hell with Mercedes after this debacle and I think Mercedes has done enough to supply them with the information they need. Your statement doesn't make sense since there was only 1 boat available, and it has passed with Mercedes. The moment another team calls up Pirelli asking for a 3 day test, Pirelli makes a call to the FIA and the team is in trouble.

And to your comment about Merc sharing that confidential info with other teams, impossible, why would they? The data probably shows correlation between the Merc chassis and the Pirelli tyres (supposedly for 2014) and why in the world would they share this data with anyone else? It's called confidential for a reason.

[What's Burning?]

Mercedes got off lightly, could and possibly should have lost some constructors points.

So should have the scuderia.

Why should they? the Ferrari test was legal, but right now I bet they regret not doing it with a 2013 car if that is all they would have got!

for one they ran over 1000 Km is that not against the regulations? They also ran their own tests for portions of their "secret" testing, for during times without the involvement of Pirelli. They didn't use a 2013 car but they did test plenty of other things.

I understand why Ferrari fans, and Red Bull fans may not like the ruling, but get over it. Plenty of times have other teams gotten away with skirting the regulations and the door to that loophole in now closed. Just because Ferrari didn't get it and you don't like it, is not a "legal" reason.

This story is done folks. Next controversy coming up in a few races I'm sure. it's just how the sport goes.

[spankyham]

If a team decided they wanted to do the same, then, this decision has enshrined that their was an obligation to give all teams the same opportunity. So, I think any team could do the testing with current drivers and cars. Yes, to your comment that it would have to be conducted by Pirelli. But I don't think that would be a problem to any team because Pirelli would also be obliged, (under the same decision to treat all teams equally) therefore Pirelli would have to hand over to the team all their engineers trackside data from the test. I'm sure the big teams will be weighing up this option now.

Err what? The thing is the teams will have to be waiting by the phone for the call from Pirelli instead of the other way around. And that call isn't going to come anytime soon since Pirelli had to go through hell with Mercedes after this debacle and I think Mercedes has done enough to supply them with the information they need. Your statement doesn't make sense since there was only 1 boat available, and it has passed with Mercedes. The moment another team calls up Pirelli asking for a 3 day test, Pirelli makes a call to the FIA and the team is in trouble.

I don't think the teams have to wait for a call from Pirelli. They have a decision that clearly states Pirelli's obligation to provide all teams with the same offer to test with their 2013 car and current drivers. I think the only question mark would be whether the teams feel the young driver test would be more valuable than a test with current drivers, at a closed track and obtaining the data from Pirelli.

And to your comment about Merc sharing that confidential info with other teams, impossible, why would they? The data probably shows correlation between the Merc chassis and the Pirelli tyres (supposedly for 2014) and why in the world would they share this data with anyone else? It's called confidential for a reason.

Well, as so many people have pointed out, it is not Mercs data, it is Pirelli's data and Pirelli has an obligation to provide the same data to all teams. Be interesting to see if any other teams will seek the data, but if it was me, I'd certainly be asking for it now.
If another team did decide to do the test with current drivers and run by Pirelli, Merc might likewise put their hands out for that data as might other teams.