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By Hammer278
#363400
Mercedes: "We know we did wrong, please, please, please, please, please, please don't punish us, I'll be your friend!"

Pirelli:"Why are we here?"


What?

More like:

"Because of your regulation book filled with holes, we will help you save face by doing a and b, and let the matter be settled". I don't see any begging from Mercedes in this case.

Tweeted by Mercedes on Facebook:

Image

:yikes::D
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By racechick
#363408
I posted that a few pages back :hehe: great pic!!
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By spankyham
#363410
Mercedes: "We know we did wrong, please, please, please, please, please, please don't punish us, I'll be your friend!"

Pirelli:"Why are we here?"


I don't think that's what Mercedes were saying. I think they were saying, we dont think we're guilty, It wasn't our test but If yo feel we are guilty we only expect a light punishment , especially in view of what Ferrari have done. If Merc get a heavy punishment Ferrari have to. What did Ferrari do?-

Tested secretly just before Spain . Ok it was a two year older car, but not much slower and still apparently able TEST NEW FERRARI PARTS. :yikes: unlike Mercedes this was not restricted to tyres.

Tested last year for Pirelli with Massa at the wheel. This has only just come to light.

If Merc go down Ferrari have to follow, further down I'd say.


There is just no way you can equate Ferrari's test to what Merc did. There are photos from the Ferrari test and, despite what Mercedes lawyer has tried to imply, it was only Pedro De La Rosa who drove for Corse Clienti and Pirelli. I think Merc would have damaged their credibility trying to state that the F-150 is anything like the F138. For starters it has a completely different suspension, nose, DRS etc. You may as well suggest they can test F138 parts on a 458 - just a silly statement.
By Hammer278
#363414
How can you or anyone be sure that Ferrari didn't rig their 2011 car to have some sort of correlation with the current spec? I'm sorry, but with the wind tunnel facilities at their disposal it is NOT an impossible feat. Whether they did or not is not the issue, the fact is that it can be done.
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By racechick
#363418
Ferrari tested with Massa last year and its only just come to light. This year it seems they tested parts not just tyres. That's not good.
By vaptin
#363419
How can you or anyone be sure that Ferrari didn't rig their 2011 car to have some sort of correlation with the current spec? I'm sorry, but with the wind tunnel facilities at their disposal it is NOT an impossible feat. Whether they did or not is not the issue, the fact is that it can be done.


Not relevant though and just grasping at straws look Ferrari broke the rules leave us alone? Hoe can you prove Ferrari did. Whereas it seems the FiA can prove Mercedes did. . . who have pretty much admitted it now
By andrew
#363420
How can it be proven that Ferrari ran new parts on their test car? What's to say that Mercedes didn't do exactly the same? it would be very difficult toprove unless there were obvious changes to the bodywork or someone on the inside spills the beans.

EDIT: vaptin beat me to the punch.

Ferrari tested with Massa last year and its only just come to light. This year it seems they tested parts not just tyres. That's not good.


The tested using their 2011 car which is perfectly legal. Can you prove Ferrari tested new components rather than just tyres?
By Hammer278
#363423
@vaptin

Well if they don't leave Merc alone, I think Merc can take further steps to drag Ferrari back into this with an all out protest. There are just too many ways to dig holes in that rule book and I think the FIA/Tribunal know it which is why they're taking so long to come to a verdict.

Mercedes' position is they don't even have a case to answer to. Since they received permission (which Whiting/FIA are not denying, they just say it wasn't official) and all the parameters and controls were supervised by Pirelli. If they get docked points/fined they can drag a whole lot of sh*t down with them.
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By racechick
#363424
How can it be proven that Ferrari ran new parts on their test car? What's to say that Mercedes didn't do exactly the same? it would be very difficult toprove unless there were obvious changes to the bodywork or someone on the inside spills the beans.

EDIT: vaptin beat me to the punch.

Ferrari tested with Massa last year and its only just come to light. This year it seems they tested parts not just tyres. That's not good.


The tested using their 2011 car which is perfectly legal. Can you prove Ferrari tested new components rather than just tyres?

Perfectly legal? How do you know that? That's not what the rules say. They do not say using a 2011 car is perfectly legal! I can't prove they treated other parts no, I can only go on heresay like the rest of you.
By vaptin
#363426
Presumably Ferrari's stuff was already looked into too? To be honest, this is Mercedes trying to make a legal argument against Ferarri right? At this point I have little faith in any of Mercedes legal arguments, Ferrari are quite possibly more than able to defend themselves, remember they weren't at the hearing, seeing as the FIA didn't take their case to a hearing. Ferrari haven't even had a chance to rebut yet.

Doesn't even seem like the strongest line of argument, anyway.

Anyway, let me quote from the article, I haven't yet:

[codeFIA counsel Mark Howard said Mercedes did ask in general terms about using a 2013 car at the test.
But he said any permission given was conditional on the other teams being informed, which they were not.
Howard said: "There was no attempt whatsoever by Mercedes to involve the other teams in order to ensure that no perception of an advantage was obtained."
][/code]

The FIA said the evidence would be re-read on Thursday before the publishing of the verdict on Friday.
The tribunal heard that Mercedes sporting director Ron Meadows spoke to FIA race director Charlie Whiting on 2 May to ask whether testing with a 2013 car was permissible. Team principal Ross Brawn then made a similar enquiry in a telephone call later that day.
Howard, for the FIA, said: "Whiting was asked a general and non-specific question - the general question on the permissibility of using a 2013 car.
"His preliminary response was that such a test would comply with article 22 [of the sporting regulations] providing the purpose was for Pirelli to test its tyre and he would check."
Whiting's advice from the FIA legal department was that it could be possible to allow a team to use a 2013 car to test, but it would be subject to Pirelli inviting all the other teams to test and to demonstrate it had done so. This did not happen.
Howard said Whiting told Brawn about the FIA's legal position but added that it was not binding.



Harris later added: "We acted in good faith. If there is to be any sanction it has to be a minor one taking that into consideration."‬


The FIA said in response that Pirelli's contract with the governing body made it clear it was bound by the F1 regulations.


Adding:
Brawn insisted that while it was "inevitable" Mercedes would have gained some knowledge from the test it would not have been a competitive advantage because they did not know what tyres they were testing.
"We didn't know what the tyres were; we didn't know what the detail objectives were of what Pirelli were doing," he said


Isn't that not what Rosberg said?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22984415
Last edited by vaptin on 20 Jun 13, 20:31, edited 2 times in total.
By andrew
#363427
How can it be proven that Ferrari ran new parts on their test car? What's to say that Mercedes didn't do exactly the same? it would be very difficult toprove unless there were obvious changes to the bodywork or someone on the inside spills the beans.

EDIT: vaptin beat me to the punch.

Ferrari tested with Massa last year and its only just come to light. This year it seems they tested parts not just tyres. That's not good.


The tested using their 2011 car which is perfectly legal. Can you prove Ferrari tested new components rather than just tyres?

Perfectly legal? How do you know that? That's not what the rules say. They do not say using a 2011 car is perfectly legal! I can't prove they treated other parts no, I can only go on heresay like the rest of you.


The FiA have said that running a 2 year old car is not a problem - it's just Mercedes clutching at straws. Anyway, it's not Ferrari that are in the dock - they're in the clear so far - it's Mercedes and Pirelli. If the Ferrari using new parts is merely heresay it is totally irrelevant as it cannot be proven.

FIA Tribunal: Mercedes challenges Ferrari's tyre test with 2011 car
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By racechick
#363429
I've read that article and whether the test is legal with a 2011 car is open to interpretation ( like most of the FIA rules)
The article also says Ferrari organised and paid for the test, NOT Pirelli, as was the case with Mercedes. Also Ferrari conducted balance tests...NOT just tyre tests.
By Hammer278
#363433
I've read that article and whether the test is legal with a 2011 car is open to interpretation ( like most of the FIA rules)
The article also says Ferrari organised and paid for the test, NOT Pirelli, as was the case with Mercedes. Also Ferrari conducted balance tests...NOT just tyre tests.


Yeah, basically stating that the level of transparency between Ferrari and the officials were more or less the same as Mercedes this year and the officials. Furthermore, Ferrari were in charge of the tests, i.e. Ferrari were conducting the test, not Pirelli. So if the FIA lower the boom on Mercedes this time around, they can turn around and point at yet another lack of consistency in treatment of the FIA towards Ferrari VS Others.
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