FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Jabberwocky]

I dont think anyone cares if someone cheats and they finish behind you. If you appear to cheat and come in 15 seconds ahead of the rest of the field. People will want to know why.

So you are also questioning how Alonso can have a lightning start in Spain (as do the Ferrari's in every race) and then finished the race 10 seconds ahead of Räikkönen?

I think any team will question and look at anyone who finishes ahead of them

Sent from Turing Colossus using Tapatalk 2

[spankyham]

Seem there's quite a bit of tender touchiness in some of the Red Bull supporter camp on this one.

I have no idea if Red Bull are using some form of TC. What I do know is that they are being seriously challenged this year. Ferrari have a car that is a genuine contender as do Lotus and Merc given the right circumstances.

[andrew]

Seem there's quite a bit of tender touchiness in some of the Red Bull supporter camp on this one.

Not really. It's more that the source is not what you'd call credible.

[darwin dali]

Seem there's quite a bit of tender touchiness in some of the Red Bull supporter camp on this one.

I have no idea if Red Bull are using some form of TC. What I do know is that they are being seriously challenged this year. Ferrari have a car that is a genuine contender as do Lotus and Merc given the right circumstances.

I don't think Lotus and/or Mercedes are GENUINE contenders in the sense that they could challenge for the WCC and likely they will also be unable to challenge for the WDC. Ferrari however...

[CookinFlat6]

I'll go with the experts on this:

Craig Scarborough ‏@ScarbsF1 Nope, its just drivetrain oscillation causing a momentary change in torque at the wheels.
Matt Somerfield ‏‏@SomersF1: Long winded answer: Slow speed traction causes drivetrain oscillation along with vertical sidewall deformation.

Playing devils advocate against the experts (and Craig really knows his stuff), the drivetrain oscillation causing pulsing torque levels resulting in less slip and more grip is a form of traction control, if it can be proved that it is induced at certain times

So that Craigs argument is irrelevant, but the tyre deformation argument seems fair

[mnmracer]

I'll go with the experts on this:

Craig Scarborough ‏@ScarbsF1 Nope, its just drivetrain oscillation causing a momentary change in torque at the wheels.
Matt Somerfield ‏‏@SomersF1: Long winded answer: Slow speed traction causes drivetrain oscillation along with vertical sidewall deformation.

Playing devils advocate against the experts (and Craig really knows his stuff), the drivetrain oscillation causing pulsing torque levels resulting in less slip and more grip is a form of traction control, if it can be proved that it is induced at certain times

So that Craigs argument is irrelevant, but the tyre deformation argument seems fair

Williams engineer Richard Saxby also tuned in:
"2 stage dampers high freq low damping bump/rebound under squat and minimal DF, promoting wheel hop..."

[CookinFlat6]

Any mechanical arrangement resulting in less slip and more grip, if induced only at particular times is traction control. To prove it is a whole different ballgame

So for me the mechanical arrangement is irrelevant, only if it only happens when its needed

[mnmracer]

Any mechanical arrangement resulting in less slip and more grip, if induced only at particular times is traction control. To prove it is a whole different ballgame

So for me the mechanical arrangement is irrelevant, only if it only happens when its needed

Saxby's comment seems to imply that it is something Williams also has; the way he just casually mentions what it is. Considering we've seen the same marks from Mercedes and Force India, I think it's a safe bet it is something all cars have. How or why it is not considered traction control, I don't know, but it seems very unlikely this is a RB thing.

[andrew]

Any mechanical arrangement resulting in less slip and more grip, if induced only at particular times is traction control. To prove it is a whole different ballgame

So for me the mechanical arrangement is irrelevant, only if it only happens when its needed

Saxby's comment seems to imply that it is something Williams also has; the way he just casually mentions what it is. Considering we've seen the same marks from Mercedes and Force India, I think it's a safe bet it is something all cars have. How or why it is not considered traction control, I don't know, but it seems very unlikely this is a RB thing.

Most likely it's something that several teams have stumbled upon at the same time. I may be wrong (not being a "smart person" apparently) but could this be like Benetton in 1994 - it's one thing proving TC is in place but an entirely different thing to prove that TC has actually been used?

[stonemonkey]

Something I've wondered about before, since TC was banned and the SECU brought in, could the KERS MGU be used or controlled in some way to provide some form TC and/or ABS by varying the load on the drive?

[What's Burning?]

Something I've wondered about before, since TC was banned and the SECU brought in, could the KERS MGU be used or controlled in some way to provide some form TC and/or ABS by varying the load on the drive?

I guess it could but then it wouldn't be able to perform its primary function as well. Or I should say, not as effectively since it would recover less energy.

[stonemonkey]

Something I've wondered about before, since TC was banned and the SECU brought in, could the KERS MGU be used or controlled in some way to provide some form TC and/or ABS by varying the load on the drive?

I guess it could but then it wouldn't be able to perform its primary function as well. Or I should say, not as effectively since it would recover less energy.

I'm not sure about that, it's the taking of energy from the drive (and applying a load to the drive) that charges up the batteries so if it was used at other times as well as under braking it could harvest more energy. In the rules there doesn't seem to be any restriction on when energy can be harvested, only on rate and how much can be stored so it'd be a matter of getting rid of excess energy probably as heat.

[CookinFlat6]

Something I've wondered about before, since TC was banned and the SECU brought in, could the KERS MGU be used or controlled in some way to provide some form TC and/or ABS by varying the load on the drive?

Theoretically it shouldnt be a problem to have the Kers harvesting unit do its thing in spurts that lead to less overall power in pulses, leading to a 'slip/less power/more power/slip' etc pattern. But it would have to be used only on demand and that is back to TC.

If there was a program that changed the way it harvested at certain times that would be picked up by the SECU, in fact we would be theoretically able to see it on the graphic we get on screen showing the Kers level of charge and so the FIA would most definitely know

If thats what you meant by providing TC

[bigpat]

I love the fact that reporters claim some technical point when often they have no idea........

Its just wheel chatter. You can hear it as the car makes a buzzing noise as it accelerates away. Remember the cars run electronic diffs, which are constantly varying between different lock modes and programs, as they shuttle engine toque between each axle as one tyre grips up or slips, thus producing staggered marks on the road.

You will never see a steady line of rubber fading into nothing, not one a car as light as that. A sedan with 600 hp and weighing 1.4 tonnes, maybe.....

Lastly, can you honestly see Renault, ( who would HAVE to have any knowledge of such things) leave themselves exposed to a blatent contraventions of the rules?

Pat

[1Lemon]

Lastly, can you honestly see Renault, ( who would HAVE to have any knowledge of such things) leave themselves exposed to a blatent contraventions of the rules?

Pat

While I agree this story is absolutely rubbish (no one's listened to my comment to move on, shameful) but Renault hadn't exactly had the cleanest F1 history so that wouldn't shock me that much. Of course this is all Crap and the only people who can't see that are Italian media and tifosi, which are one of the same really.