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[vaptin]

Some other quotes from news articles:

Hembery said he did not know whether Mercedes had tested with this year's car and the rain-affected test in Barcelona had been 90 percent aimed at the 2014 tyres.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/05/2 ... 5A20130526

The Formula One regulations ban in-season testing but Pirelli said their contract stipulated that they could do 1,000-km private tests with a 'representative' car and the three days in Spain were legal.

"It is very simple. We were asked by Pirelli, we asked the FIA: ‘Are we allowed to do the test?' The FIA confirmed it and said ‘yes' and so therefore we did the test. We think other teams have been asked too," he said.

"Mercedes did nothing wrong - they asked the right people for permission. We asked the FIA, the FIA checked it legally and advised us we could do it so we can't do any better."

Mercedes are basically saying, when they said, "we think the other teams were asked too", that they thought the condition had been adhered too, but the Stewards have said "they see no evidence" and no other team has come out and said they knew, and two teams said they didn't know.

I guess Mercedes thought Perelli would tell the other teams, Perelli, for some reason didn't realise it was a current years car, so didn't tell the other teams?

Also, it remains to be seen, who ran the test, it has to have been run by Perelli, not Mercedes, how the FIA want to define that, I have no idea. Mercedes I think, from that report, were supposed to have only provided car and drivers.

I guess with the older cars, it doesn't matter who runs the test, since a team can run a 2 year old car (I think?) without Perelli anyway.

[FerrariFan63]

The FIA is clearly stating that there were conditions attached to the testing, and that these conditions weren't adhered to.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107708

This has been mentioned further up in the thread. Hence I don't think it's still reasonable to continue depicting the situation as one in which Mercedes asked permission, and the FIA replied 'yes'. It's clearly more complicated than that.

[racechick]

Well. Pirelli can ask to test with a current car. They did this in May.They told the FIA that they wanted to test with a current car and the FIA said yes, Ok, so long as you give all the teams an equal chance. And therein lies the rub? Did they give every team an equal chance? It appears not. But how did Pirelli interpret that instruction to give every team a chance? Did they think it meant they had the choice to choose any team so long as they chose every team throughout the year? Were the FIA clear in their instructions when Pirelli asked for a test? If there was a grey area here, why didn't the FIA say yes, you can test, but we'd like to send an FIA observer to ensure you follow our guidelines.

This is not cut and dried here. As usual, the FIA have weird rules that they like to switch to suit their needs.

Sorry if someone just said all that......I was cooking dinner

[FerrariFan63]

"Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by the FIA that such a development test could be possible if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver, and that such tests would be conditional upon every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity."

A quote of a quote from the FIA. It says every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity. Is there anyone here who would argue that all other teams have been given the same opportunity as Mercedes was given?

[Nin-Chin]

Helmut Marko insists Mercedes' Pirelli tyre test was worth at least a second a lap

They had no development car parts during the test,Pirelli were testing the Canada spec tyres and some development tyres to gather tyre data for the 2014 tyres,if they get a new contract to supply tyres

[vaptin]

I also think reactions are quite telling, if Perelli and Mercedes were sure, their counter arguments would be making sense, Perelli would be saying "we are adhering, since we are going to give every team this chance", the counter arguments, aren't direct counters to what is in the Stewards Report.

[LRW]

"Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by the FIA that such a development test could be possible if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver, and that such tests would be conditional upon every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity."

A quote of a quote from the FIA. It says every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity. Is there anyone here who would argue that all other teams have been given the same opportunity as Mercedes was given?

Well no-one can really argue anything, as no-one knows exactly what Pirelli offered and to whom it was offered.

As with most posts in this thread it's mainly based on guess work, rumour and heresay.

[What's Burning?]

"Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by the FIA that such a development test could be possible if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver, and that such tests would be conditional upon every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity."

A quote of a quote from the FIA. It says every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity. Is there anyone here who would argue that all other teams have been given the same opportunity as Mercedes was given?

You speak of the FiA as a singularity as if there is only one person saying yes or no to a given request.

The FiA said yes to Mercedes, that's not a dispute. If Mercedes provide any evidence of that, it's the end of the story, no matter how much other teams protest.

Until all the parties involved provide the proof, all we're doing is arguing conjecture.

[vaptin]

"Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by the FIA that such a development test could be possible if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver, and that such tests would be conditional upon every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity."

A quote of a quote from the FIA. It says every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity. Is there anyone here who would argue that all other teams have been given the same opportunity as Mercedes was given?

You speak of the FiA as a singularity as if there is only one person saying yes or not to a request.

The FiA said yes to Mercedes, that's not a dispute. If Mercedes provide any evidence of that, it's the end of the story, no matter how much other teams protest.

Until all the parties involved provide the proof, all we're doing is arguing conjecture.

Not exactly . .. the FIA would have said yes to X, whats in dispute is if it was X or if it was X+1 is more understanding.

[Hammer278]

7 pages for a case which we have probably 10% of the material to work with...no one knows what happened, not even the F1 teams. Might as well wait for the FIA to tell everyone they f**ked up and gave permission without understanding the situation. If Mercedes obtained permission from an official from the FIA, they and Pirelli are untouchable.

[vaptin]

7 pages for a case which we have probably 10% of the material to work with...no one knows what happened, not even the F1 teams. Might as well wait for the FIA to tell everyone they f**ked up and gave permission without understanding the situation. If Mercedes obtained permission from an official from the FIA, they and Pirelli are untouchable.

Erm, have you read my post above?

The FIA gave permission for a situation with conditions attached, it was also a generic request, according to the FIA.

Apprently no one knows what happened, aside from you? Cos you just said what was going to happen. . .

[FerrariFan63]

"Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by the FIA that such a development test could be possible if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver, and that such tests would be conditional upon every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity."

A quote of a quote from the FIA. It says every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity. Is there anyone here who would argue that all other teams have been given the same opportunity as Mercedes was given?

Well no-one can really argue anything, as no-one knows exactly what Pirelli offered and to whom it was offered.

As with most posts in this thread it's mainly based on guess work, rumour and heresay.

No it's not. We have direct quotes from the FIA. We also have information directly from teams such as Lotus, Red Bull, and Ferrari. See here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107733

This information is quite clear that Pirelli were given permission to undertake tests with 2013 cars only providing that all teams were given equal opportunity to test. We know that Mercedes did a very large amount of testing with the 2013 car. We know that at least Lotus, Red Bull, and Ferrari weren't offered the opportunity of testing.

None of this is 'rumours' or 'guesses'. We've heard from the FIA, the rival teams, and from Mercedes/Pirelli. The evidence is there, and trying to pretend that it isn't is just avoiding the issue.

[Hammer278]

7 pages for a case which we have probably 10% of the material to work with...no one knows what happened, not even the F1 teams. Might as well wait for the FIA to tell everyone they f**ked up and gave permission without understanding the situation. If Mercedes obtained permission from an official from the FIA, they and Pirelli are untouchable.

Erm, have you read my post above?

The FIA gave permission for a situation with conditions attached, it was also a generic request, according to the FIA.

Apprently no one knows what happened, aside from you? Cos you just said what was going to happen. . .

Erm, YES. And where did I say I know what happened, no one knows. We can only speculate and guess. But if Mercedes got permission, even a generic one, they have nothing to worry. Mercedes didn't ask for a favour, Pirelli did and Mercedes complied. If the FIA have a problem with it after a representative gave a (generic) permission, its their own issue.

[FerrariFan63]

It's not speculation and guessing. The FIA is very clear in their press release.

http://www.fia.com/2013-monaco-grand-prix-note-media

Autosport correctly quoted the FIA. And it's very clear that the permission given was not just a 'generic' 'yes', or whatever, but that there were specific conditions attached.

[What's Burning?]

The FIA gave permission for a situation with conditions attached, it was also a generic request, according to the FIA.

You've got no idea about the consistency of what the FiA did or didn't do, or even if they're trying to cover their @ss at the moment because someone there screwed the pooch. It's best to let the facts speak for themselves whenever this hearing is held.