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[vaptin]

I don't see any of that in writing and we don't know what the Pirelli contract states on the basis of a SAFETY test. You guys are quoting stuff you're effectively making up. Whether right or wrong, it's not Mercedes' responsibility to make arrangements for Pirelli if it's Pirelli that's running the test. Brawn seems pretty confident, so I doubt there's anything the FIA can make stick with teeth, hence the formation of a 'solution'. I also don't see that document printed on legal letterhead so until we've got a factual ruling all we're doing is playing our conjecture roles.

You could say just as much it's the responsibility of the FIA to keep tabs on testing being done by Pirelli and they didn't so why is it Mercedes responsibility to question if Pirelli went about their test the right way with the right approvals when they're simply providing a car? (because it's even unclear if they provided a driver)

EDIT: Mercedes did use a current unnamed driver.

Rival teams were not informed about the test, which not only involved Mercedes' 2013 car but also race drivers Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22676348

Not really, Mercedes have signed up to the sporting regulations, it's their job therefore to abide by them, it remains to be seen if they did or not. They can't say, "Perelli did it, we assumed they did all the checking to make sure it was legal", if the breach is something Mercedes have agreed to abide by. Mercedes were involved obviously, ignorance isn't a defence. . . plenty of teams have argued, "they didn't realise it was illegal", they've still been punished.

I think though, Mercedes won't be held accountable for Perrelli's contract with the FIA, that is nothing to do with them, but complying with the sporting regulations is from what I make of it, don't see why you think otherwise? Mercede's were at the test, obviously, saying it's nothing to do with them, yes, Mercedes probably assumed Perelli checked, but that doesn;t mean they get a get out clause.

It's like, a mate suggesting you go and do something, he tells you (or perhaps you just assume) it is legal, the police turn up, it isn't, you are still held accountable. You can argue (correctly) this wasn't your idea, he set the event up, but if you participated, it;s your responsibility to check too.

Obviously, if Mercedes were wilfully decide, it's different, but they probably are expected to ensure stuff they do, is compliment with the sporting regulations, is that so far fetched to you?

[What's Burning?]

Unless it's spelled out in the sporting regulations that Mercedes is supposed to notify the FIA or other teams when the testing is being performed at the request of Pirelli, (this isn't Mercedes going out to run their battery of tests) then we know how much gray area there is.

I'm too lazy to go dig out the sporting regs but I'd give the section being quoted a scan. I'm not making excuses here, but you guys are making statements as if you knew the letter of the law, and that everything is being spelled out. I'm going to wait for something official as at this point your guess is as good as mine.

[What's Burning?]

FIA 2013 Sporting Regulations
Maybe I'm not that lazy.

22.4
No track test
ing may take place :
a)
Whilst a Championship Event is taking place.
b)
With more than one car per day at any such test.
c)
Before 09.00 or after 18.00 on any day at any such test.
d)
On any track located outside Europe without the agreement of the maj
ority of teams
and the FIA.
e)
During the month of August except under (h)(iii) below.
f)
During the month of January.
g)
Between 1 February and the start of a ten day period which precedes the start of the
first Event of the Championship of the same ye
ar with the exception of :
i)
Aerodynamic tests carried out in accordance with 22.4(h)(ii) below.
ii)
Three team tests of no more than four consecutive days duration,
carried out on
a site approved by the FIA for Formula 1 cars.
h)
Between the start of
a ten day period which precedes the start of the first Event of the
Championship and 31 December of the same year with the following exceptions :
i)
One three day young driver training test carried out on a date and site approved
by the FIA following cons
ultation with all teams. No driver who has competed in
more than two F1 World Championship races may take part in this test and all
drivers must be in possession of an International A Licence.
ii)
Four one day aerodynamic tests carried out on FIA approved
straight line or
constant radius sites between 1 February of
the current year and the start of the
last Event of the Championship. Any of these days may be substituted for four
hours of wind
-
on full scale wind tunnel testing to be carried out in a single
twenty
four hour period.
2013
F1 Sporting Regulations
11
/
46
5 Decem
ber
2012
© 2012 Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile
iii)
If a team declares that one of its current race drivers is to be substituted by a
driver who has not participated in an F1 race in the two previous calendar years,
one day of track testing will be permitted between the start
of a ten day period
which precedes the start of the second Event and the last Event of the
Championship. The following must be observed :
-
Any such day may only be carried out by the new driver and may not take
place on a circuit hosting a race in the c
urrent Championship year.
-
Any such day may only take place within a period 14 days prior to the
substitution and 14 days after the substitution has taken place.
-
If a team, having declared the driver’s substitution and performed the test,
does not the
n enter an Event with the new driver, the team will be penalised
by a reduction of one day from the pre
-
season track testing days available in
the following year.

Now all we have to do is wait for the details of Pirelli's contract with a clause that supersedes this.

[vaptin]

The FIA say they told both Perelli and Mercer's this, implying it was a joint responsibility.

At anyrate, we might as well lock the thread for a month, since it seems we won';t get any new information until the hearing takes place. Unless someone pulls out of the protest or something.

I'll disagree with Spanky though, a clarification looks like everyteam is going to end up being allowed to test.

What I am missing though, is, if that is what the FIA really said, why wouldn't Perelli tell the other teams? Heck they get way more data that way.

[spankyham]

I almost can't believe what Adam Cooper broke. It's hard to believe Ross and the powers that be at Merc could make this big a boo-boo.

It explains why they were suddenly so quiet last week -they sure did learn about the tires.

I suspect there was lots of pressure and desperation at Merc leading to this.

Needless to say it's a bigger mistake by Pirelli.

[LewEngBridewell]

My Controversy of the Year Poll for November is beginning to take shape.

[LRW]

Oh look. Another controversy. Lets all put forward our opinions/guess work to suit our favourite driver and pass it off as fact.

[racechick]

I'm not really bothered about this either way. The FIA will do what they want they always do. I hope Nico doesn't lose his win because of it, that would seem unfair.
I personally don't think they gained any benefit because they didnt now what they were testing, and it was next years tyres. And at Monaco the tyres were easier for everyone because yo can go fast anyway.
And it wasn't a secret.
But whatever happens I don't really care. The tyres are crap anyway and the sooner they dump them the better.

[LewEngBridewell]

I hope Nico doesn't lose his win because of it, that would seem unfair.

Yeah, there's nothing worse than changing the result of the race when it's finished! I hate it!

[Hammer278]

ESPN F1 has erased the Monaco results in the overall drivers/constructors standings....what gives? They had updated it yesterday.

[spankyham]

@Vaptin - I sure did get this wrong. Even now I find it hard to believe they did this. I don't think offering other teams to do testing is viable. It would suit perhaps 3 or 4 teams but the rest probably can't come up with the budget needed on such short notice.
100% they should not punish either Nico or Lewis - the decision was made above their pay rate. So no points off them or wins either.
Id fine Merc heavily. No team points for Merc either. Also, I'd exclude them from one Friday session each race until they have given up about 1000k.
Pirelli should also be fined and they should have to find who made this decision and they should be fired.

[What's Burning?]

If there's a way to screw things up Pirelli, the FIA and the troll will find it.

[Denthúl]

I hope Nico doesn't lose his win because of it, that would seem unfair.

I don't think Nico can be stripped of the win as the official race result has been published, but don't hold me to that. I'd certainly be upset if it happened because nobody could get the better of him this weekend.

I personally don't think they gained any benefit because they didnt now what they were testing, and it was next years tyres.

Some of them were for next year, but others were the tyres being developed for Canada onwards. There's also the possibility that non-tyre-related components were tested on the cars during the three days at Barcelona. 1000kms is quite a lot of distance to gain understanding of aero parts, if you have the chance.

[racechick]

I still can't accept this was secret. How do you hide F1 cars and transporters and all the personnel?? And you can bet your bottom dollar Benie knew about it. He'll just do his dumb act know though.

As far as I can gather the car had to run exactly the same throughout this test because it was Pirelli doing the test not Mercedes. So mercedes couldnt test their own bits. Mercedes didnt know what tyre was on the car this years, a control tyr or next years, so it won't help them.

And if they piss off Mercedes and Pirelli too much they risk loosing tres for next year(already a possibility) a manufacturer and engine supplier.
And why? Because the FIA can't organise things properly, can't come up with clear rules and regulations and have a baboon running the show.

[racechick]

Baffoon not baboon. iPad chose the word baboon. Actually baboons not bad