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[LRW]

Sometimes I really freak myself out by wondering about the fact that if we weren't here, if life didn't exist, there would be NOTHING here. And I dont mean us as humans, I mean anything, no people, plants, no atoms, no animals, no planets, no universe, no dark matter, no space, no nothing. What would be in its place? Because for there to be nothing, there has to be somewhere for that nothing to exist? Or does there? And then if there was nothing, and I mean nothing, then that just makes me feel sad.

That thought then follows onto - well we are here, so what's the point? And I dont mean this in a "oh whats the point of it all" or "there must be a pre-ordained grand scheme for us" - but more along the lines of ...... I dont know. Maybe it is, and Im too scared to go down that route of philosophical thought?

And I know this rambling is veering very close to a discussion about religion, but that's not even on my radar. Im thinking of it with more of a scientific view point. But is that even possible? Maybe thats why my head spins in circles with this everytime I find myself thinking about it, as science cant explain it?

I've thought about this since my early teens. It only happens once a year or so, but when it does, it kinda freaks me out.

Discuss.


NB: Apologies for the randomness of this thread. Its hard to explain with any clarity, the exact thought process of my brain. If Mods thinks this should go in the general chat thread, then please feel free to move.

[Hammer278]

I think about it way more than once a year!

My policy in life is no one knows what happens when we die...and I ain't trusting anyone who hasn't experienced it. I find it easiest to believe in the present...and planning for the near future, so enjoy life as it is now (doing whatever as long as it doesn't hurt another person) and appreciate the joys this life has to offer. Does this come close to any religious beliefs?

[stonemonkey]

if life didn't exist, there would be NOTHING here. And I dont mean us as humans, I mean anything, no people, plants, no atoms, no animals, no planets, no universe, no dark matter, no space, no nothing

Do you mean if there was no life or no one here to observe the universe then it wouldn't exist?

[LRW]

if life didn't exist, there would be NOTHING here. And I dont mean us as humans, I mean anything, no people, plants, no atoms, no animals, no planets, no universe, no dark matter, no space, no nothing

Do you mean if there was no life or no one here to observe the universe then it wouldn't exist?

No, I mean, if the universe itself didnt exist. If the matter and dark matter that makes up the universe didnt exist....

[What's Burning?]

I've got to go to work.

[andrew]

Is it possible to have a state of nothing as nothing is still something.

[LRW]

Is it possible to have a state of nothing as nothing is still something.

Well thats exactly my question! What would be here? Infact what is 'here', because if nothing existed, there would be no reference point to define 'here'.....

[Jabberwocky]

if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?

[LRW]

if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?

[youtube]kV33t8U6w28[/youtube]

[Jabberwocky]

a God will only exist if people believe in them, so if no one believed in them they would not exist. If a god appeared in front of you then you would know that they existed, and would no longer believe in them so would no longer exist.

[Big Azza]

I've wondered the same question many times too.

Here's my personal opinion. It does have a religious element to it, but basically there are two types of people in the world Those who are physically minded and those who are spiritually minded. A spiritual person will always talk about this subject in a way different to a physically minded person, so it's impossible for me to see things physically as per the majority of this forum.

I have also provided a counter-argument posed by evolutionists which I've posted at the end if you want to skip all the religious stuff.

----

Many people say that you only live for 80 years or so. So live it up, because it all goes to poo anyway.

Others hold onto their faith that there is somehow more than just this life.

But even if you believe in a God who created everything, there is still the question that exists: What was there before God created everything?

Perhaps the biggest question is, does time itself have a beginning?

What I conclude is that man only has a sense of time because we have a beginning. Everything had a beginning, whether you believe in evolution or creation we believe that everything had a beginning. The only exception that I have to this is that I believe in a God who had no beginning.

For example, if you were immortal, with no beginning and end, would you be bound by the concept of time? Time is just a perception, and probably not a reality. But does this defy logic? Because our actual understanding of time would logically ask - what happened BEFORE the Big Bang or Genesis account?

What I personally believe (i.e. I don't think this is taught by any religion) is a conclusion I've drawn from scriptures I studied when I wondered the same question.

Ecclesiastes 3:11, NWT: " Everything God has made pretty in it's own time. Even time indefinite he has put in their hearts."

Jude 25, RSV: "To God be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority before all time and now and forever. Amen."

Genesis 1:1, NWT: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. (Beginning of what)


So I use these scriptures to conclude that God created the concept of time for humans to relate to, and that it's beyond our mental comprehension to determine what existed before the beginning. This answer satisfies me personally.

When it comes to believing in evolution, however, I find that this question cannot be answered satisfactorily. You could perhaps believe that time only started when the Big Bang happened. But what was there before the Big Bang? What caused the Big Bang?


There is a video on this website to explain how science believes that Something and Nothing are the same. http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/nstv/2011/07/how-the-universe-appeared-from-nothing.html

In my personal opinion this is totally illogical, but maybe that is because I am not physically-minded.

[What's Burning?]

I've thought about this since my early teens. It only happens once a year or so, but when it does, it kinda freaks me out.

I think you're mixing two separate issues and perhaps that's why it makes your head hurt. There is the scientific aspect of your question. Then there is the philosophical aspect of your question. One there is incomplete data so all we can do is hypothesize or theorize. The other has many answers and has just as much to do with anthropology as it does about personal philosophy.

Maybe it's just all about seeking your own answers.

[LRW]

I've wondered the same question many times too.

Here's my personal opinion. It does have a religious element to it, but basically there are two types of people in the world Those who are physically minded and those who are spiritually minded. A spiritual person will always talk about this subject in a way different to a physically minded person, so it's impossible for me to see things physically as per the majority of this forum....... <snip>

And that's probably why I find it difficult to get my head round it. Im a physical thinker, and I find it hard to believe in immortality, or the fact that a God has just always 'been'.

edit: for clarity of who I was responding to.

[LRW]

I've thought about this since my early teens. It only happens once a year or so, but when it does, it kinda freaks me out.

I think you're mixing two separate issues and perhaps that's why it makes your head hurt. There is the scientific aspect of your question. Then there is the philosophical aspect of your question. One there is incomplete data so all we can do is hypothesize or theorize. The other has many answers and has just as much to do with anthropology as it does about personal philosophy.

Maybe it's just all about seeking your own answers.

Yeah, its the scientific part that takes up most of the confusion really - the second part is just a by-product that I ponder on for a little bit, and then get back on with the washing up.

Ps. I thought you had to go to work...?

[What's Burning?]

At its most fundamental level, time is useful only to define a change of state. If there is no change, ergo, time becomes unnecessary.