FORUMula1.com

[racechick]

I've stumbled upon an excellent s article on the need for diversity ( but not at the expense of talent and excellence,) in F1 and Motorsport in general. The article looks mainly at homswpsexuality but also touches on colour and sexism. The article was stimulated by the recent American Jason Collins , who has just come out as homosexual. This is a great read!!

http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/20 ... cceptance/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mnmracer]

gaaaaayyyyyy



That should tell you all you need to know how I feel about political correctness.


(I guess) I appreciate what he tries to tell us, but it's way too victimized. The burden of proof is on him that there are gay (though I'd say Seb and Kimi seem pretty joyful together on the podium) drivers who are afraid to come out, that they are correct in that fear, and that something needs to change. It's often too easy to just blame everything on discrimination or what-not, but instead, that should be the last step, if there are no other contexts.

It's like the 'women at the top' argument in work places: "there are only so few women at the top because of discrimination." No, there are only so few women at the top, because in general, women take career paths (studies, part-time work) that produces less women suitable for such positions. If out of 100 people to have chosen a career path that might make them suitable for a top position, only 20 are women, then that is the reason for less women at the top; not some perceived "oh my god, pitty poor old me" discrimination.

The worst thing about it, is that it makes such claims (be it gay, women, race) less valuable when they are valid. Discrimination happens on all levels, against all kinds of people, but if there is one big loud noise coming from people that just use it as an excuse, people will (rightfully so) put on noise-cancelling headphones. So when someone who is actually done wrong comes by, they suffer because those that wrongfully wallow in self-pitty have made a joke out of the issue.

So no gays or women because we 'need' them. If the best driver is gay, a woman or both, than good for them for being the best driver and that, and that alone, is why I will support them.
To judge them on their merits as racers, and on these merits alone.

[/end rant]

[racechick]

I think you missed the point.
I also hate political correctness and positive discrimination, does no one any favours. Always the best should get the job, absolutely, and the writer of the article was saying that in strong terms.

The point is, the image of F1 is stuck in a time warp and makes It more difficult for minority groups to get in, or be accepted in it ( as evidenced by Moss's recent comments both on women drivers and on not having a "poof" play him in a film). Don't get me wrong, I like Moss, but times have moved on..

The example you give of less women in top jobs because of careerchoices they've made is probably correct, but why did they make those career choices? Because of perceptions about which jobs are for women. I teach young children and the times ive heard girls say they want to be nurses and boys doctors...i always ask them why?What are the female role models in F1? Until very recently exclusively grid girls.

I would hazard a guess that by the law of averages there are/ have been, a fair few homosexual drivers around. And in the current f1 climate they likely feel it would be damaging to their career to come out. It's that image thing again. Hopefully this will change , and the sooner the better.
Every time take the best man or woman for the job. Lets just try to make it a bit more acceptable for all groups to have the same opportunities to be considered the best person for the job.

[What's Burning?]

I don't blame a gay driver not coming out, it's their decision to make. It would speed acceptance along if they did. It would be foolish to think many haven't come and gone over the years. But that's a problem with society not F1.

Women on the other hand don't face the same challenges gay men do, on the contrary being a woman (especially if attractive enough) will open up doors that an equivalently talented man would never have opened for.

Not the same discussion in my opinion.

[racechick]

I wouldn't blame a gay racing driver for not coming out either. But then he's had to chose between his sexuality and the job he loves. And that's sad.
No it's not the same with women, but it's still an issue, and it's an issue to do with perception and what's acceptable.

[mnmracer]

Lets just try to make it a bit more acceptable for all groups to have the same opportunities to be considered the best person for the job.

But that is assuming that there is no acceptance for all groups.
There is always nonacceptance among certain people towards certain people. People like or dislike a person, and they try to justify that by seeking something. I read a comment the other day, some guy didn't like Vettel because "he looks too average, not a handsome guy". If someone dislikes a driver and he is gay, they will call him a fag or something. Immediately assuming that must mean that the driver is not accepted because he's gay, would be far too simple. Taking Moss' (one driver) old-timey comment as proof that F1 is hostile to minorities, is not really that conclusive now is it?

This just seems a matter of "there are no gay drivers/law of averages, ergo there is no acceptance", while there is no proof for that.
If someone stays inside because the world out there is trying to kill him, then there's an issue.
If someone stays inside because he thinks the world out there is trying to kill him, he is his own issue.

Maybe there simply aren't good (enough) gay drivers. I don't know, but this article didn't clarify that one way or another.

[What's Burning?]

But that's the point, I think women have a predisposed acceptance and easier time getting into the sport should they choose to go that route, whey they don't make the choice is probably the same reasons why gay drivers choose not to come out. Not everyone is a boat rocker and boat rocking takes the focus away from the driving.

In a way it's no different that the way a 'cute' woman tennis player can rocket to stardom with a lot less achievement than a Navratilova or Williams.

[mnmracer]

For the record, I think Beitske is awesome!
Just added her to cheer this topic up a little, not because I think she's being excused into racing

[LRW]

I find it hard to believe that there are really that many people within the F1 industry, that would actually care if a driver was black/white, gay/straight, male/female; If that driver had the results (and/or financial backing - but that's a separate matter) required?

I know there are some old-timers like Moss who come out with these ridiculous statements - but these people are pretty irrelevant when it comes to things (especially hiring and firing), and surely no-one takes them seriously...?

Or am I just entirely naive...?

[Jabberwocky]

Beverly Turner says about a lot of this in her book "The Pitts"

To be fair when I read the book I took most of it to be sour grapes

[mnmracer]

Beverly Turner says about a lot of this in her book "The Pitts"

To be fair when I read the book I took most of it to be sour grapes

Which is exactly what clouds the discussion.
Imagine if Rubens Barrichello was a gay black muslim woman...

[Jabberwocky]

what if a minority was told to move over for there non minority team mate?

[1Lemon]

Beverly Turner says about a lot of this in her book "The Pitts"

To be fair when I read the book I took most of it to be sour grapes

Which is exactly what clouds the discussion.
Imagine if Rubens Barrichello was a gay black muslim woman...

Then Rubens Barrichello would be a really odd name.

[Jabberwocky]

Beverly Turner says about a lot of this in her book "The Pitts"

To be fair when I read the book I took most of it to be sour grapes

Which is exactly what clouds the discussion.
Imagine if Rubens Barrichello was a gay black muslim woman...

Then Rubens Barrichello would be a really odd name.

[Hammer278]

Racism/Homophobia can never be wiped out...it's simply another way to help oneself distinct an individual from another. The best humanity can do is to remain as politically correct as possible at all times. Or put on noise cancelling headphones.

Personally, I think anyone and everyone is capable of something special they're gifted for and that's it. However, if someone pissed me off/upset me in anyway....I don't think I can stop my head from digging into personal stuff/thinking racist or homophobic stuff about the person. I experienced this feeling recently and still do, so my own reaction is still fresh. I believe almost everyone will react similarly and F1 is comprised of humans too.