FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Denthúl]

Found this on ITV's F1 site and I thought I would share it with you all, as I share his opinion on the sport.

Former world championship contender Eddie Irvine has claimed that Formula 1 is being 'dumbed down'.

Irvine, who fought for the 1999 title with Ferrari and also raced for Jordan and Jaguar during his nine-year F1 career, supported Alain Prost's recent suggestion that driver skill now played a smaller part than ever.

"There's a quote attributed to Ernest Hemingway when he said: 'There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games,'" Irvine wrote in a column for The Guardian newspaper.

"Formula 1 seems intent on trying to become a game.

"By taking increasing measures to slow things down the FIA is turning Formula 1 into tiddlywinks.

"It is nearly impossible to have an accident in F1 now, you just go into the sand traps.

"The sport has been dumbed down and it's not Formula 1.

"Before, if you made a mistake while battling to overtake, you would be in danger of flying into a barrier .

"Now it's not much of a gladiatorial contest."

Irvine believes the removal of traction control this season will have little effect.

"In terms of reducing driver aids to increase the skills employed in a race, getting rid of traction control will make very little difference save in exceptionally wet conditions," he said.

"The easiest thing to do is come out of a corner on the throttle; braking and turning is the hardest part.

"Yes, you need to concentrate a little bit more but for drivers at this level a lack of traction control won't be a major difficulty."

But Damon Hill disagreed with Irvine and suggested that drivers' talent was still a vital ingredient despite the increased technology in F1.

"Drivers' skill is probably as great as it ever was; it is the area that the driver works in that is much more restricted than it used to be," he told the newspaper.

"Some of the regulations are being changed to restore the element of racing ability and take away some of the emphasis on really quite obscure technology.

"The public, after all, wants to see who is the best driver rather than which is the best team.

"The true power of the sport is the spectacle of man and machine competing against each other."

I think he is right, to be honest. Having watched a number of past F1 seasons and compared them to the latest, there are always more and more cars finishing not because the driver is good enough to finish with them, but because the car seems to have so many features to provide a safety net for them. Drivers do seem to be a lot less cautious when they try to overtake (where that is actually possible) because the consequences are not as great as they used to be.

Opinions?

[7UpJordan]

Reliability is a lot better than it used to be, but back in the days where there were a lot more retirements, there were so many drivers who either simply didn't give their cars much sympathy or used to cause accidents by being mobile chicanes.

Whilst the traction control ban has been a huge emphasis, a lot of people seem to be forgetting that engine-braking has been banned too and that's why people are spinning off so much more, not because they're using the throttle as if it's an on and off button.

Anybody hazard a guess that Coulthard's going to come out next and complain the cars are too unsafe AGAIN? Especially Irvine's now given his two penneth.

No disrespect to Irvine, but there still is a danger of having a huge accident whilst battling for position and there was a MASSIVE one last year, the Kubica crash at Montreal.

Hill is right about driver skill still being crucial, afterall it's why Wurz struggled to outpace Rosberg last season and also it's what keeps Sakon Yamomoto from the top step of the Podium.

[Denthúl]

But there is a much larger margin for error now than there was, which is my main point. And it's not all because drivers are getting better and better. I agree with you on the matter of traction control and I find myself constantly pointing out that it is engine braking being banned that will make a bigger difference.

Coulthard's complaints are, most likely, because he has gotten used to having TC and engine braking. He'll probably forget about them soon enough. After all, of the current drivers, he's one of the ones with most experience driving a Formula 1 car without TC. In fact, I think that the only person with more is Barrichello.

[Jensonb]

I take his point, but I'd like to see him come and win a race in Kimi's car.

The thing that annoys me is the massive runoffs everywhere. All these Tilke snooze-fests allow drivers to completely stuff up "challenging" and lose like a tenth. Bring back grass and kitty litter!

[8-ball]

It's interesting that all of these measures were brought in to make F1 safer. While I agree that safety should come first it should not be at the expense of restricting racing. Removal of TC is a good start but lack of engine braking will make the cars less stable. A balance needs to be struck between making the most of driver skill and safety of drivers.

[McLaren Fan]

I think that Formula One has three conflicting issues: 1) it's about the best drivers in the world showing their skills b) it's about designed the fastest, most technological advanced cars in racing c) it's meant to be relevant to normal automotion. If you increase the technology, you take reduce the emphasis on driving skill. If you increase the focus on driving skill, you reduce the technological levels of the sport. etc. etc.

I can't remember a more gurny, girly generation of drivers. What have they to complain about? Formula One is very safe now and, what's that got to do with anything. Motorsport is inherently dangerous. If you can't take the risks, then you don't get involved.

[8-ball]

I think that Formula One has three conflicting issues: 1) it's about the best drivers in the world showing their skills b) it's about designed the fastest, most technological advanced cars in racing c) it's meant to be relevant to normal automotion. If you increase the technology, you take reduce the emphasis on driving skill. If you increase the focus on driving skill, you reduce the technological levels of the sport. etc. etc.

I can't remember a more gurny, girly generation of drivers. What have they to complain about? Formula One is very safe now and, what's that got to do with anything. Motorsport is inherently dangerous. If you can't take the risks, then you don't get involved.

All the drivers i'm sure are ready to take the risks but the risks must be calculated and not stupid. We do not want another driver to die on the track

[McLaren Fan]

I think that Formula One has three conflicting issues: 1) it's about the best drivers in the world showing their skills b) it's about designed the fastest, most technological advanced cars in racing c) it's meant to be relevant to normal automotion. If you increase the technology, you take reduce the emphasis on driving skill. If you increase the focus on driving skill, you reduce the technological levels of the sport. etc. etc.

I can't remember a more gurny, girly generation of drivers. What have they to complain about? Formula One is very safe now and, what's that got to do with anything. Motorsport is inherently dangerous. If you can't take the risks, then you don't get involved.

All the drivers i'm sure are ready to take the risks but the risks must be calculated and not stupid. We do not want another driver to die on the track

Never said I did. Nor am I anti-safety in the sport. In fact, I'm all for it. Look at how many great battles we have been robbed off through the sport's history because of drivers being killed. Ronnie Peterson, Gilles Villeneuve sprint to mind, as well as having to see Roland Ratzenberg and Ayrton Senna killed on live television, and losing the chance to the see Senna and Michael Schumacher battle it out for the 1994 and subsequent titles. My point is that what drivers are complaining about now are not really safety issues. Driving without fireproof overalls and no helmet us unsafe. Driving in a car with your legs beside the wheels is unsafe. Driving a car without without a monocoque which does not meet modern standards is unsafe. Driving around a track which has no tyre barriers or decent run off areas is unsafe. Traction control, however, is non-story and I am disgusted that drivers are complaining about it.

Somebody mentioned the chances of a crash in Formula One are still very real, alluding to Kubica's sickening crash. I take another view on his crash: if a crash as violent as that results only in a driver having a twisted ankle, I think we can say the safety standards are generally pretty high.

[f1ea]

I agree with emphasis on driver skill. But I really disagree with what Irvine is saying about the sport becoming a game because of increased safety. There hasn't been an F1 casualty in 14 yrs, I thought this was something to be proud of. Just because drivers are getting killed doesn't mean they are doing less effort or that they are less fit than years ago.

I am all for the removal of driver aids but driver/spectators safety should be #1 priority.

[nsaqam]

I think Irvine is a whining fool. I've always disliked him and this ridiculous position only reinforces my low opinion of him. I'm all for eliminating driver aids, heck, I think they should go back to manually shifted gearboxes, but I surely don't think that because a driver has a far better chance of surviving a crash that the sport is suffering. The risk of serious injury or even death is still there in every form of motorsports and although I respect the drivers of the '50's and '60's immensely I don't want to go back to that era when great drivers were killed on a regular basis. I don't want a mistake or a malfunction to rob me of seeing Jim Clark, Ronnie Peterson, or Ayrton Senna at the next race. Hey, I'm selfish that way I guess.
It's not supposed to be a gladiatorial contest it's about driving a car faster and better than the others on the track, it's not about crashing, rolling and dying. Irvine's a pantywaist and he couldn't hold Kimi's jockstrap on his best day.

[Snugs]

F1 isn't the same sport it used to be, you cna buy your way threw Formula 1 in this day & age, as i myself got a chance of racing in Formula Ford, you cna pay a Meerly 80,000 to get a seat into Formula Ford, Racing is more about the money than talent, you pay to become a driver, not earn your way to become a driver? such Greats as Michael Schumacher didn't pay to become a driver, he got chosen to become a driver based on the pure talent that man had, or Aryton Senna? were losing the main essence of Formula One to technoligy crap, and people trying to make the sport look more difficult than it is? a Monkey can drive a car, it takes eal talent to get the car to win!!!
real Talents In Formula One At the moment are
1.Kimi Raikkonen- First season with Sauber, got them 10 top qualyfying spots in his first season! Amazing
2.Felippe massa- Do i need to speak? he has been with Ferrari ever since he started? you wouldn't let just 'anybody' take control of the Prancing Horse
3.Jenson Button-This British Boy has tooooo much talent running threw his blood, he has the talent, the looks, he has everything, just not the car, and hopefulkly by 2009 Ross would of gave him the package to bring a title home with him, hopefully before hamilton does
4.Lewis Hamilton- Born a Legend, & will die a legend, Funding was needed! But Ron Dennis Saw the amazing talent Ooooooooozing of Hamilton
5.Mark Webbere, this boy brought Minardi to 5th? and also put Jaguar at the top of the pack!!!! if Jaguar had better reliabillity then he could of caugh some podiums!
6.Nico Rosberg- This boy has amazing talent, hes now got the car,the backing, now he's just got to take that maiden Podium
if you look at the grid you will notice most of the drivers are running of the power of the engine, not the overall talent they have
These are young talented drivers which in my books are a credit to the sport