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[Hammer278]

It's fun now. From everything Vettel says, his rship with Mark has completely broken down no matter what Horner, Barko or anyone else in that team says. Gloves off, even if fuel is low, or the tyres are tearing into pieces if Webber is in distance to put his claws into Vettel he's going to do it and vice versa. My biggest hope is Mercedes to be in the same position like in Msia when the action takes place. With enough fuel to take it flat out.

[bud]

Being pr1ck is one thing, coming out and saying you enjoy being a pr1ck - well, I think Seb has found a way to differentiate himself form a lot of winners there

Guess the old Australian bugger can still teach the young dog some tricks then

Young dog is too nice a term, how about young rat?

[mnmracer]

Well there'll be no turning down engines from either driver now, or nursing engines, or nursing tyres. If the gloves are off and Vettel is not going to be obeying orders(and I presume neither will Mark) in situations where things on the car are marginal, then he must expect to be in situations where his car fails. He may have won those points last race but he now leaves himself open to loosing a lot more than that.

He's already lost a lot of respect from the fans.

Some fans respect paying back a team-mate that has repeatedly stabbed you.
Some fans respect saying it like it is (again, like your team-mate). Pitty it took three weeks, but he's regained that respect.
Some fans respect a driver not rolling over and playing dead when the team tells him for 30 laps not to challenge for the win.
Some fans respect a driver that just puts the pedal to the metal, because he is paid to win.

You are apparently not such a fan, but it's a good thing for those that don't appreciate progressions, that you are not the only fan.

[mnmracer]

Being pr1ck is one thing, coming out and saying you enjoy being a pr1ck - well, I think Seb has found a way to differentiate himself form a lot of winners there

Guess the old Australian bugger can still teach the young dog some tricks then

Young dog is too nice a term, how about young rat?

An old rat teaching a young rat?
Doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
How about a young farmer, teaching an old farmer that you reap what you sow.

[bud]

Vettel the innocent still?

[What's Burning?]

He was booed pretty badly on the podium In Australia. Kimi got tons of cheers, Alonso got cheers, Vettel boos. Malaysia didn't help. I hope he continues his winning ways.

I hear Vettel will be doing the voice-over for Dick Dastardly in the next Cars movie.

[1Lemon]

Well there'll be no turning down engines from either driver now, or nursing engines, or nursing tyres. If the gloves are off and Vettel is not going to be obeying orders(and I presume neither will Mark) in situations where things on the car are marginal, then he must expect to be in situations where his car fails. He may have won those points last race but he now leaves himself open to loosing a lot more than that.

He's already lost a lot of respect from the fans.

Some fans respect paying back a team-mate that has repeatedly stabbed you.
Some fans respect saying it like it is (again, like your team-mate). Pitty it took three weeks, but he's regained that respect.
Some fans respect a driver not rolling over and playing dead when the team tells him for 30 laps not to challenge for the win.
Some fans respect a driver that just puts the pedal to the metal, because he is paid to win.

You are apparently not such a fan, but it's a good thing for those that don't appreciate progressions, that you are not the only fan.

And some fans respect a driver that respects his team who got him into a racing seat.

[mnmracer]

Vettel the innocent still?

Haha, can't take it that your "boohoo, poor little Webber" tirade is a farce so you're jumping to another point?
No one says Vettel is innocent, I just think he has every right to act the way he did towards Webber considering Webber's behavior towards him. If you can't take it, don't dish it.

[mnmracer]

Well there'll be no turning down engines from either driver now, or nursing engines, or nursing tyres. If the gloves are off and Vettel is not going to be obeying orders(and I presume neither will Mark) in situations where things on the car are marginal, then he must expect to be in situations where his car fails. He may have won those points last race but he now leaves himself open to loosing a lot more than that.

He's already lost a lot of respect from the fans.

Some fans respect paying back a team-mate that has repeatedly stabbed you.
Some fans respect saying it like it is (again, like your team-mate). Pitty it took three weeks, but he's regained that respect.
Some fans respect a driver not rolling over and playing dead when the team tells him for 30 laps not to challenge for the win.
Some fans respect a driver that just puts the pedal to the metal, because he is paid to win.

You are apparently not such a fan, but it's a good thing for those that don't appreciate progressions, that you are not the only fan.

And some fans respect a driver that respects his team who got him into a racing seat.

And some fans respect a team that respect their driver that got them three WDCs.
Do you respect those that disrespect you? It's a personal opinion, not one written in stone.

[1Lemon]

Well there'll be no turning down engines from either driver now, or nursing engines, or nursing tyres. If the gloves are off and Vettel is not going to be obeying orders(and I presume neither will Mark) in situations where things on the car are marginal, then he must expect to be in situations where his car fails. He may have won those points last race but he now leaves himself open to loosing a lot more than that.

He's already lost a lot of respect from the fans.

Some fans respect paying back a team-mate that has repeatedly stabbed you.
Some fans respect saying it like it is (again, like your team-mate). Pitty it took three weeks, but he's regained that respect.
Some fans respect a driver not rolling over and playing dead when the team tells him for 30 laps not to challenge for the win.
Some fans respect a driver that just puts the pedal to the metal, because he is paid to win.

You are apparently not such a fan, but it's a good thing for those that don't appreciate progressions, that you are not the only fan.

And some fans respect a driver that respects his team who got him into a racing seat.

And some fans respect a team that respect their driver that got them three WDCs.
Do you respect those that disrespect you? It's a personal opinion, not one written in stone.

Red Bull do respect Vettel, do you think that one team order is disrespectful? That asking him to hold station is wrong for a team to tell a driver who may have won 3WDCs? Respect is a two way street.

[myownalias]

All this comes down to Vettel not listening to the people that signs his paychecks, how many times I have heard Horner on the radio telling Vettel to slow down, save the tyres, save the engine, save the gearbox while leading while he completely ignores the pitlane calls, pumping in fast lap after fast lap with 10 laps to go and he has a 20 second lead. This is more about Vettel's general disobedience and the BS he spouts to the media after the race than overtaking Webber.

[racechick]

He was stupid if he feels he can place himself above the team and continue to ignore team orders.

imagine....The team see something on the telemetry that requires engines turning down, the drivers ignore it and continue racing. The engines blow up and neither score points. Ditto running out of fuel . Ditto ruining their tyres. Ditto overheating brakes. Ditto gearbox.
This is nothing to do with favouring a driver, these team orders are to preserve points and cars.

He has now lost all support from his team mate. Imagine him needing to overtake Webber at the end of the year to win the championship from Alonso or Hamilton. You reckon Webbers gonna give up a win for him to do that? No. You reap what you sow.
I think he's set the scene for more problems for himself.those points he gained may come to cost him dear.

[Hammer278]

I thought the team have said there 'won't be anymore team orders'...so from here on in, the car to pit telemetry is pretty much useless since the drivers won't listen to anything their engineers have to say if their teammate is close by?

[myownalias]

I thought the team have said there 'won't be anymore team orders'...so from here on in, the car to pit telemetry is pretty much useless since the drivers won't listen to anything their engineers have to say if their teammate is close by?

Helmut Marko's comments about no more team orders is a media soundbite, Red Bull will use team orders as always... Red Bull will not allow their drivers to run out of fuel of have a failure because they didn't issue a team order. With modern tyres; there is no way a team can just let both drivers go at it hammer and tongs, there is too much money to lose at the end of the season!

[mnmracer]

He was stupid if he feels he can place himself above the team and continue to ignore team orders.

imagine....The team see something on the telemetry that requires engines turning down, the drivers ignore it and continue racing. The engines blow up and neither score points. Ditto running out of fuel . Ditto ruining their tyres. Ditto overheating brakes. Ditto gearbox.
This is nothing to do with favouring a driver, these team orders are to preserve points and cars.

He has now lost all support from his team mate. Imagine him needing to overtake Webber at the end of the year to win the championship from Alonso or Hamilton. You reckon Webbers gonna give up a win for him to do that? No. You reap what you sow.
I think he's set the scene for more problems for himself.those points he gained may come to cost him dear.

So if the team tells you a number of times that you should do this or that or things will go wrong, and they never do, how reliable are those team messages then?
The team has shown to be unreliable in their 'be careful or else' messages, Webber has shown to be unreliable in [s]obeying teamorders[/s] not trying to screw Vettel's championship. It has just come full circle now with Vettel.

Even Alonso thinks you should listen to the team 'more or less'. If as a driver you know better, you should go for it.