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[geetface9]

mnmracer i think the difference is that vettel actually succeeded whereas webber attempted to and failed and thats why he is in such an uproar

Be that is it may, it just makes Webber a sore loser.
Although I do enjoy seeing people fail when they try to screw someone over, it won't make me more empathetic for what they did.

Hang on a minute, I did remember reading that webber tried to catch back up to vettel and pass him but failed to do so, but that would mean turning his engine back up after he realized vettel wasn't going to stay behind him, which potentially means he didn't try very hard to maintain the 6-7 second gap he had over vettel after the last pit stop because he believed vettel would stay behind and just bring the cars home. So, unless otherwise proof is shown, webber didn't fail at anything except trusting his teammate. Who's to say webber wouldn't have held off vettel until the end had no team orders been given and if he had left his engine turned up? It's a bit of a stretch and also biased to say he's in an uproar or a sore loser because there's no way to know if vettel would or would not have caught up to him had no team orders been given.

[mnmracer]

mnmracer i think the difference is that vettel actually succeeded whereas webber attempted to and failed and thats why he is in such an uproar

Be that is it may, it just makes Webber a sore loser.
Although I do enjoy seeing people fail when they try to screw someone over, it won't make me more empathetic for what they did.

Hang on a minute, I did remember reading that webber tried to catch back up to vettel and pass him but failed to do so, but that would mean turning his engine back up after he realized vettel wasn't going to stay behind him, which potentially means he didn't try very hard to maintain the 6-7 second gap he had over vettel after the last pit stop because he believed vettel would stay behind and just bring the cars home. So, unless otherwise proof is shown, webber didn't fail at anything except trusting his teammate. Who's to say webber wouldn't have held off vettel until the end had no team orders been given and if he had left his engine turned up? It's a bit of a stretch and also biased to say he's in an uproar or a sore loser because there's no way to know if vettel would or would not have caught up to him had no team orders been given.

Webber failed to overtake Vettel in Silverstone 2011, where he showed Vettel and the team he can't be trusted to 'maintain the gap'.
Webber failed to finish ahead of Vettel in Abu Dhabi 2012, where he again showed Vettel and the team he can't be trusted to obey teamorders.
Whatever Webber's intention was in fighting Vettel in Brazil, at least there he succeeded in finishing ahead, but still showed Vettel and the team he can't be trusted to obey teamorders earlier in the race.

[geetface9]

I'm not defending webber on anything except him 'failing' to win the 2012 malaysian gp. I'm not upset in the slightest that vettel passed mark cuz I know mark would have done the same exact thing too all I'm saying is that what I quoted in my previous post is a little presumptuous.

[mnmracer]

I'm not defending webber on anything except him 'failing' to win the 2012 malaysian gp. I'm not upset in the slightest that vettel passed mark cuz I know mark would have done the same exact thing too all I'm saying is that what I quoted in my previous post is a little presumptuous.

Only if you thought I was talking about the Msan GP.
I wasn't

[1Lemon]

mnmracer i think the difference is that vettel actually succeeded whereas webber attempted to and failed and thats why he is in such an uproar

Be that is it may, it just makes Webber a sore loser.
Although I do enjoy seeing people fail when they try to screw someone over, it won't make me more empathetic for what they did.

Hang on a minute, I did remember reading that webber tried to catch back up to vettel and pass him but failed to do so, but that would mean turning his engine back up after he realized vettel wasn't going to stay behind him, which potentially means he didn't try very hard to maintain the 6-7 second gap he had over vettel after the last pit stop because he believed vettel would stay behind and just bring the cars home. So, unless otherwise proof is shown, webber didn't fail at anything except trusting his teammate. Who's to say webber wouldn't have held off vettel until the end had no team orders been given and if he had left his engine turned up? It's a bit of a stretch and also biased to say he's in an uproar or a sore loser because there's no way to know if vettel would or would not have caught up to him had no team orders been given.

Webber failed to overtake Vettel in Silverstone 2011, where he showed Vettel and the team he can't be trusted to 'maintain the gap'.
Webber failed to finish ahead of Vettel in Abu Dhabi 2012, where he again showed Vettel and the team he can't be trusted to obey teamorders.
Whatever Webber's intention was in fighting Vettel in Brazil, at least there he succeeded in finishing ahead, but still showed Vettel and the team he can't be trusted to obey teamorders earlier in the race.

You can argue, as he didn't overtake, he did not break team orders. 'Maintain the gap' is another way of saying 'Don't overtake'.

[mnmracer]

You can argue, as he didn't overtake, he did not break team orders. 'Maintain the gap' is another way of saying 'Don't overtake'.

Let's ask Mark:

I chose to race as hard and as fair as I thought was possible, trying my best to beat Seb. I got pretty close a couple of times but couldn't quite pull it off.

To manage it but then be told to hold position is something I wasn't prepared to follow at the time. If I'd backed off and held the gap at three seconds, as I was asked to do, it would have been much more difficult for me to sleep after the race.

At the same time, I knew I was going against the team's wishes.

Go ahead, call Mark a liar.

[1Lemon]

You can argue, as he didn't overtake, he did not break team orders. 'Maintain the gap' is another way of saying 'Don't overtake'.

Let's ask Mark:

I chose to race as hard and as fair as I thought was possible, trying my best to beat Seb. I got pretty close a couple of times but couldn't quite pull it off.

To manage it but then be told to hold position is something I wasn't prepared to follow at the time. If I'd backed off and held the gap at three seconds, as I was asked to do, it would have been much more difficult for me to sleep after the race.

At the same time, I knew I was going against the team's wishes.

Go ahead, call Mark a liar.

But Seb hadn't been told that the race was over and he hadn't turned his engine right down, he was battling too

[mnmracer]

You can argue, as he didn't overtake, he did not break team orders. 'Maintain the gap' is another way of saying 'Don't overtake'.

Let's ask Mark:

I chose to race as hard and as fair as I thought was possible, trying my best to beat Seb. I got pretty close a couple of times but couldn't quite pull it off.

To manage it but then be told to hold position is something I wasn't prepared to follow at the time. If I'd backed off and held the gap at three seconds, as I was asked to do, it would have been much more difficult for me to sleep after the race.

At the same time, I knew I was going against the team's wishes.

Go ahead, call Mark a liar.

But Seb hadn't been told that the race was over and he hadn't turned his engine right down, he was battling too

1. Whether or not Seb 'had turned down his engine' has nothing to do with the fact that Webber disobeyed teamorders.
2. If it's all about ethos, Vettel's KERS was failing. Didn't stop Webber from attacking a 'crippled car'.

This is getting kind of farcial.

[What's Burning?]

Indeed, let's try to curtail the repetitive back and fourth a bit unless we get a bit of information released that is factual, or a completely new POV that hasn't been discussed before. At this point we're pretty clear on where folks stand and who's on what side of the issue and everyone is welcomed to go back and read the thread from the beginning.

I don't think I can go two more weeks of this.

[bud]

You can argue, as he didn't overtake, he did not break team orders. 'Maintain the gap' is another way of saying 'Don't overtake'.

Let's ask Mark:

I chose to race as hard and as fair as I thought was possible, trying my best to beat Seb. I got pretty close a couple of times but couldn't quite pull it off.

To manage it but then be told to hold position is something I wasn't prepared to follow at the time. If I'd backed off and held the gap at three seconds, as I was asked to do, it would have been much more difficult for me to sleep after the race.

At the same time, I knew I was going against the team's wishes.

Go ahead, call Mark a liar.

But Seb hadn't been told that the race was over and he hadn't turned his engine right down, he was battling too

1. Whether or not Seb 'had turned down his engine' has nothing to do with the fact that Webber disobeyed teamorders.
2. If it's all about ethos, Vettel's KERS was failing. Didn't stop Webber from attacking a 'crippled car'.

This is getting kind of farcial.

Your defence is mark did it too... Two wrongs don't make a right!

[Hammer278]

Hey bud, nice sig! I think I have to agree with "anonymous", if they kept Alonso, they might not even have got the WDC in 2008...which would be a fantastic record of winning NOTHING for...14 years! They could've advertized that fact on their front wings next to the green/sustainable thingy.

[mnmracer]

Your defence is mark did it too... Two wrongs don't make a right!

That is not what is being discussed there.
1Lemon is telling flatout lies about what Webber has actually done. That is disgusting.

[What's Burning?]

I agree bud, Hamilton would have been getting WDCs since 2009 driving for Red Bull.

[1Lemon]

Your defence is mark did it too... Two wrongs don't make a right!

That is not what is being discussed there.
1Lemon is telling flatout lies about what Webber has actually done. That is disgusting.

I'm intrigued, what flat-out lies?

[mnmracer]

Your defence is mark did it too... Two wrongs don't make a right!

That is not what is being discussed there.
1Lemon is telling flatout lies about what Webber has actually done. That is disgusting.

I'm intrigued, what flat-out lies?

So you didn't say that Webber did obey the teamorders in Silverstone while it is a fact he did?
And you did not imply that Vettel was not at a mechanical disadvantage, while it is a fact his KERS was down?