FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

Discuss the sport you love with other motorsport fans

Formula One related discussion.
User avatar
By Jabberwocky
#347653
I think Mercedes are now in this to win the championship and not worried about the price. Where as until now I have seen it as a money making exercise.

So maybe Merc might start knobbling rival teams so I would not be surprised to see mclaren not having merc engines next year.
By What's Burning?
#347656
I think Mercedes are now in this to win the championship and not worried about the price. Where as until now I have seen it as a money making exercise.

So maybe Merc might start knobbling rival teams so I would not be surprised to see mclaren not having merc engines next year.

I'd be surprised about that. The engine contracts for next year are already signed I'm sure and if Mclaren was NOT going with Mercedes it would be the biggest F1 silly season news of the new millennium.
User avatar
By spankyham
#347657
Interesting discussion ^^ as it was only a little while ago I read an article on Honda supposedly working on a "secret" project to produce a donk for '14
By What's Burning?
#347658
I'd welcome a new engine supplier, but man... to go with Honda with an all new engine, that would be a ballsy commitment. Not just from a team's perspective but for Honda they'd need to commit to it long term. I just don't see Ferrari wanting to pick up new customers at this time, and Mercedes does have an engine business.

I don't follow Indy but I know Honda owns that series... how much carryover from an engine standpoint is there from Indy to F1?
User avatar
By scotty
#347664
I don't follow Indy but I know Honda owns that series... how much carryover from an engine standpoint is there from Indy to F1?


Think they run 2.2l Turbo OR Twin Turbo v6's there. Much lower revs at 12k. Probably more road relevant engines really...
User avatar
By spankyham
#347740
.... more road relevant engines really...


Wash your mouth out!

"Road relevant" and "F1" go together like "beaucractic" and "efficiencies"
By What's Burning?
#347742
Ferrari and McLaren to a lesser extent are the only teams that are trying to benefit from that type of thinking still. Times they are a changin'.

If we're able to extract some day, very high power, very low fuel consumption and longevity from an F1 engine why shouldn't we take advantage of that? I bet you that not a single team today would go back to a 12 cylinder engine (as much as we all love them) if there were no engine reqs, just a fixed amount of fuel provided for practice, qualifying and race day.
User avatar
By scotty
#347745
.... more road relevant engines really...


Wash your mouth out!

"Road relevant" and "F1" go together like "beaucractic" and "efficiencies"


Haha, s'all relative though, ya know? A 2.2l V6 turbo, although pretty damn unlikely in a road car, is still way more realistic than a 2.4l V8!
User avatar
By spankyham
#347751
.. A 2.2l V6 turbo, although pretty damn unlikely in a road car, is still way more realistic than a 2.4l V8!


That, IMO, is the problem. :(

I acknowledge I must be in the minority, and some pretty good minds are lined up on the "lets make F1 road-car-relevant" side of the argument.

Still, I just can't help but morn what I see as the demise of F1. We have so many road-car-relevant races/championships and F1 is steaming full speed ahead into becoming JAR (Just Another Race).

F1 used to be about achieving the pinnacle - about being the best no matter what. Now it is important to be road-car relevant and implement gimmicks. I'd prefer to see the focus on pure excellence (irrespective of relevance to any particular commodity for sale). I'd also prefer to educate the audience rather than implementing gimmicks to get people to watch.
User avatar
By acosmichippo
#347752
The other problem F1 (and other series) have is that they reached the human tolerance limit a long time ago. It's no longer about making the fastest car - it's about making the fastest car that can be driven relatively safely. Power is limited, moveable aero is banned (apart from DRS), tires are engineered to be only just so grippy... Don't get me wrong, I'm all for safety, but the mechanical side of the car is now being pushed to an artificial maximum designed by the FIA. No one is really being pushed into new territory, except for maybe some fields of aerodynamics.
User avatar
By Jabberwocky
#347777
100L of fuel for a race... that should be the only engine rule. 5% fuel reduction every year.
User avatar
By scotty
#347787
.. A 2.2l V6 turbo, although pretty damn unlikely in a road car, is still way more realistic than a 2.4l V8!


That, IMO, is the problem. :(

I acknowledge I must be in the minority, and some pretty good minds are lined up on the "lets make F1 road-car-relevant" side of the argument.

Still, I just can't help but morn what I see as the demise of F1. We have so many road-car-relevant races/championships and F1 is steaming full speed ahead into becoming JAR (Just Another Race).

F1 used to be about achieving the pinnacle - about being the best no matter what. Now it is important to be road-car relevant and implement gimmicks. I'd prefer to see the focus on pure excellence (irrespective of relevance to any particular commodity for sale). I'd also prefer to educate the audience rather than implementing gimmicks to get people to watch.


Note that when i said 'road relevant' before i merely meant that the configuration is closer to one that you would find in a road car, nothing more. I would rather we still had v12 and v10 engines, but such is the way of F1 - or perhaps more accurately, the world we live in right now. They are obviously trying to get interest from manufacturers, but instead a lot of the big names are off to LMP1 where the engine rules are, funnily enough, much more free. But F1 (obviously) wouldn't allow something like diesel engines, cause it's up its own arse these days being obsessed with the show for fairweather fans rather than concentrating on the things that made it so great in the first place.

I believe we have debated KERS before so no need to go too much into that one again, but like it or not that type of technology is becoming the way forward in top level motorsport and it will eventually trickle down. F1 have really made a mess of the KERS rules (by limiting it) and will pay the price, if they aren't doing so already (only 3 engine builders after this season is utterly farcical, to put it mildly).
User avatar
By darwin dali
#347789
.. A 2.2l V6 turbo, although pretty damn unlikely in a road car, is still way more realistic than a 2.4l V8!


That, IMO, is the problem. :(

I acknowledge I must be in the minority, and some pretty good minds are lined up on the "lets make F1 road-car-relevant" side of the argument.

Still, I just can't help but morn what I see as the demise of F1. We have so many road-car-relevant races/championships and F1 is steaming full speed ahead into becoming JAR (Just Another Race).

F1 used to be about achieving the pinnacle - about being the best no matter what. Now it is important to be road-car relevant and implement gimmicks. I'd prefer to see the focus on pure excellence (irrespective of relevance to any particular commodity for sale). I'd also prefer to educate the audience rather than implementing gimmicks to get people to watch.


Note that when i said 'road relevant' before i merely meant that the configuration is closer to one that you would find in a road car, nothing more. I would rather we still had v12 and v10 engines, but such is the way of F1 - or perhaps more accurately, the world we live in right now. They are obviously trying to get interest from manufacturers, but instead a lot of the big names are off to LMP1 where the engine rules are, funnily enough, much more free. But F1 (obviously) wouldn't allow something like diesel engines, cause it's up its own arse these days being obsessed with the show for fairweather fans rather than concentrating on the things that made it so great in the first place.

I believe we have debated KERS before so no need to go too much into that one again, but like it or not that type of technology is becoming the way forward in top level motorsport and it will eventually trickle down. F1 have really made a mess of the KERS rules (by limiting it) and will pay the price, if they aren't doing so already (only 3 engine builders after this season is utterly farcical, to put it mildly).

In the old days, we had all of 2 engine builders: Cosworth and Ferrari, so there...
User avatar
By scotty
#347791
I don't think you could reasonably compare to, what, 40 odd years ago? The point is that F1 introduces new engine that are blatantly supposed to attract new manufacturers, and has it worked? Sure as hell hasn't so far.
  • 1
  • 109
  • 110
  • 111
  • 112
  • 113
  • 120

See our F1 related articles too!