FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[darwin dali]

Richard Gillis

Honda F1's "Earth Car" was launched last season, forgoing the traditional livery of sponsors logos and replaced by a digitalised picture of the world taken from space. It did its job, creating headlines around the world and helped position the Japanese carmaker as a leader in the debate on renewable energy.

Nick Fry, the Honda team principal, said: "Unless Formula One can become a contributor to the technology that might help the environment, it's highly likely the sport will become a dinosaur. There is a feeling that we need to tie together, much more than in the past, the technology in Formula One and the technology that goes into road cars,"

Critics say the notion that F1 is in any way environmentally friendly is laughable: Jenson Button's car alone emits over 50 tonnes of carbon dioxide across a Formula One season, more than five times higher than the average Briton produces in 12 months. The cars emit around 1,500g of carbon dioxide per kilometre, almost nine times more than the average new road vehicle.

Figures like these led Greenpeace to describe F1 as "the most polluting sport on the planet".

"Oil is the problem, cars are the solution", is the mantra of Iain Carson, co-author of Zoom: The Global Race to Fuel the Car of the Future, which tracks the incestuous relationship between the car and oil industries. The book's findings suggest divorce is imminent.

Carson says Toyota is five to seven years ahead of the competition in terms of developing the car of the future: "It is no coincidence that Toyota is the most profitable and challenging as the biggest car company in the world, because it's also the technological leader, the one that has tried to solve the environmental problem of fuel emissions."

The fast-growing economies of China and India, he says, will have huge implications for the industry. There are nine personal vehicles per thousand eligible drivers in China and 11 for every thousand Indians, compared with 1,148 for every thousand Americans.

Toyota's pioneering work with the Prius hybrid is the result of a long-term, technologically-driven approach. "The Prius is not exactly the car of the future," says Carson. "It is a step along the way."

The clever computer software and electronics that have gone into the petrol electric hybrid are the basis of the next generation of vehicles. In 10 years it will be common to see fuel cells in cars, with hydrogen generating the electricity.

F1 Green moves

Proposed changes for 2009

Replace 2.4-litre V8s with 2.2-litre turbocharged V6s

Engines to be around 770 horsepower - about 100hp less than present

Engines to run five grands prix without changes

Four-wheel drive and traction-control systems

Power-boost facility to enhance overtaking

Cars to use ecologically sympathetic biofuels rather than fossil fuels



Some excellent points raised here.

[Mikep99]

"Power-boost facility to enhance overtaking"

I like it, would make things very interesting I think.

[madbrad]

^^
old Champ Car spectacle improver.

[phren]

Hey, why not wood burning engines? Or the pit crew could push the car round the track and the driver could steer via two bits of string attached to each end of the front axle.
Tree huggers in F1? No no no.
Seriously though Bio fuels are actually contributing heavily to eco problems. Countries are now producing bio fuel crops rather than food crops. The destruction of local foodstuff production forces countries with little economic clout to import that which they used to produce. Imports are flown or shipped in causing large increases in local carbon emissions, as well as the problems caused by large scale refridgeration needed to keep the imported goods edible.
Bio fuel is a bit of a con at present.

[darwin dali]

There's biofuel and biofuel. I take it you're talking about grain alcohol, very popular these days and very short sighted. However, biodegradable outputs from industry, agriculture, forestry and households can be used for biofuel production, too, either using anaerobic digestion to produce biogas, or using second generation biofuels; examples include straw, timber, manure, rice husks, sewage, and food waste. The use of biomass fuels can therefore contribute to waste management as well as fuel security and help to prevent climate change, though alone they are not a comprehensive solution to these problems. However, a new diesel was developed by the University of Georgia from wood chips. The oil is extracted and then added to unmodified diesel engines. Either new plants are used or planted to replace the old plants. The charcoal byproduct is put back into the soil as a fertilizer. Since carbon is put back into the soil, this biofuel can actually be carbon negative not just carbon neutral. Carbon negative decreases carbon dioxide in the air reversing the greenhouse effect not just reducing it.

[phren]

I absolutely bow to yoyr greater knowledge. But was not a similar argument used regarding re cycling? The actual cost and prcess was found to be worse than the origanal problem. I think you'l find that the grain alcohol method would be the first choice for manufacturers.

[bud]

you know i dont buy into the replacing plants and replanting to make things carbon neutral, fact is ecosystems are still being lost along with countless of species.

theres a bigger picture than just being carbon neutral or carbon negative and its annoying that the media and mainstream society only concentrates on that.

im not saying its not important but its only part of the picture.

Onto F1 yes it needs to move towards a green powerplant but also into the events themselves from top to bottom being green!

[Martin]

"Power-boost facility to enhance overtaking"

I like it, would make things very interesting I think.

As in A1 GP - drivers have 2 squirts per race I think

[Martin]

There's biofuel and biofuel. I take it you're talking about grain alcohol, very popular these days and very short sighted. However, biodegradable outputs from industry, agriculture, forestry and households can be used for biofuel production, too, either using anaerobic digestion to produce biogas, or using second generation biofuels; examples include straw, timber, manure, rice husks, sewage, and food waste. The use of biomass fuels can therefore contribute to waste management as well as fuel security and help to prevent climate change, though alone they are not a comprehensive solution to these problems. However, a new diesel was developed by the University of Georgia from wood chips. The oil is extracted and then added to unmodified diesel engines. Either new plants are used or planted to replace the old plants. The charcoal byproduct is put back into the soil as a fertilizer. Since carbon is put back into the soil, this biofuel can actually be carbon negative not just carbon neutral. Carbon negative decreases carbon dioxide in the air reversing the greenhouse effect not just reducing it.

It is a problem that cannot be ignored and biodegradable outputs does have massive potential but, will there ever be enough? I somehow don't think so. Just because we all love F1 it does not mean that we can ignore this, and the other associated problems. We can all start by using ours cars less and having smaller engines - not easy i know for petrol heads but one day it will happen. We are already past peak oil production and demand is still increasing at an unprecedented rate.
F1 could do a good job in helping to find alternative fuel sources. This has nothing to do with tree hugging. Buds post is spot on.

[McLaren Fan]

My own view is that the climate is changing, but not down to the so-called 'Greenhouse effect'. But that's another issue to altogether. What I came on here to say was that although Button's Honda Formula One car produces five times more carbon dioxide in a season that what Joe Bloggs does in a year is poor reasoning, for there are only twenty-two Formula One cars on the planet, but 600,000,000 cars, and that figure is increasing at a ferocious pace. Although I think that line of their argument is flawed, that Formula One has to be relevant to normal automation is pretty strong. As I said, I disagree with the Greenhouse effect, but it is an undeniable fact that some day coal etc. will run out, and for that reason I would support measures which reduce the amount of fuel used by everybody. If it was shown to me that Formula One technology would heavily impact on the design of road-going cars, I would be for the changes. If the impact is not that strong, given that a lot of research has gone on about this issue outside of Formula One anyway, I would rather see Formula One stay as it is.

[bud]

i think F1 needs to take a leading role in a greener powerplant not only for the sport itself but also to trinkle the green message all the way down to karting.

mcfan on the greenhouse effect, while climate change is not a new thing the rate it is happening now is. theres a saying in physics every action has an equal and opposite reaction which i think applies to human kinds actions. it goes without saying what we are doing is having an affect on the world.

[Denthúl]

What I came on here to say was that although Button's Honda Formula One car produces five times more carbon dioxide in a season that what Joe Bloggs does in a year is poor reasoning, for there are only twenty-two Formula One cars on the planet, but 600,000,000 cars, and that figure is increasing at a ferocious pace.

Not so. There are many more than that, because people enter privately-owned Formula 1 cars into various racing leagues each year. EuroBOSS is just one example of that, and I know there are several more. Then you have to take into account GP2, Champ Cars, Indy Cars and all the lower class racing series that will produce large amounts of emissions as well. I know that's not quite as relevant, but they too should be a big part of it.

I know it still doesn't match road cars, and nor would I agree with anyone who played that card. But F1, being considered the very top of the motorsports world, should be used to set and example and, where possible, research new ways of developing environmentally-friendly vehicles.

[al4x]

if why not allow v10s or something with biofuels, thatd be ok, if its doable

what gets me is that all the blocking of wind turbines that could be built, because it 'affects the local ecosystem' pfft, what a weak argument! the same applies to the severn tidal barrier thats proposed!

if you dont undertake these projects then there will be no ecosystems locally or globally, get your priorities right, i hate the 'not in my back yard 'issue as well

it doesnt matter, its gonna happen anyway , you wont stop china but thats understandable from thier point of view, its the us that gets me

we truely are the architects of our own apocalyptic demise

[Denthúl]

Honestly, I see no problem with wind farms. They aren't ugly at all. There's a lot of fields around where I live that are unused. A few wind farms around here would be great. I also think there should be a great level of hydroelectric power used. The whole of the United Kingdom is surrounded by water which can produce immense amounts of power if utilised properly, so there is absolutely no reason for it not to be used. Of course, this is slightly away from the subject of Formula One, but it is important nonetheless.

[al4x]

yeah, i love turbines they look elegant to me

id rather see improvements like that, tracks powered by solar and stuff rather than reduced performance of the actual cars