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[CookinFlat6]

Did someone say Mclaren gave Lewis his chance, like he owes them jack?

If loyalty means anything to you then whoever said it has a point.

Didnt Lewis give McLaren their only trophy in 20 years or some period excruciatingly painful to stomach?

McLaren got a trophy in 2006 and would have got another in 2007.

What percentage of McLaren drivers in history delivered a WC?

McLaren have had 6 different drivers champions.
Ferrari have had 9 different drivers champions despite being in F1 16 years longer than McLaren.
McLaren are doing pretty well in this respect.

Hahaha, the junior in the 'civil partnership' speaks

Loyalty is what F1 is founded upon is it? Loyalty from teams to drivers is it? or drivers to teams? maybe Lewis has to be diffrent from every other driver before who stayed with a team 17 years

McLaren got a trophy in 2006 and would could shoulda in 2007? which WDC did they win in 2006? or is the WDC not whataq driver can deliver to a team?

Blah blah bla Ferrari this McLaren that, the question was, how many McLaren drivers have won the WDC? 6 is it, out of how many drivers?

So Lewis has delivered in this sense or not?

ah ok!

[bud]

Doubtful, Lewis fans have shown such grace and respect for the team that gave their precious his chance in the sport. Last few posts are just a taste of what I'm talking about, overall you cannot deny my reasoning unless you're a fanboy!

Mate, your hatred of them, is as obvious as the 'fanboyism' you claim upon them. But of course you cant see it.

And thats all I have to say on the matter.

Is that right? I hate those who act out in the manner i described. Eg. a certain cook.
I do not hate all Lewis fans for I myself am one!
So again you are wrong about me do stop with the psycho analysis, you're not any good at it!

[andrew]

Out of idle interest, is this a support thread or a hate thread?

just askin'.

[LRW]

Doubtful, Lewis fans have shown such grace and respect for the team that gave their precious his chance in the sport. Last few posts are just a taste of what I'm talking about, overall you cannot deny my reasoning unless you're a fanboy!

Mate, your hatred of them, is as obvious as the 'fanboyism' you claim upon them. But of course you cant see it.

And thats all I have to say on the matter.

Is that right? I hate those who act out in the manner i described. Eg. a certain cook.
I do not hate all Lewis fans for I myself am one!
So again you are wrong about me do stop with the psycho analysis, you're not any good at it!

[LewEngBridewell]

Out of idle interest, is this a support thread or a hate thread?

just askin'.

Of course it's a hate thread. Any thread about McLaren, Jenson Button, Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes is a tapestry of petty hate and bickering. A delightful pot-pourri of sh!t.

Old news by now, of course.

[bud]

Out of idle interest, is this a support thread or a hate thread?

just askin'.

Depends who you're asking Andy

[CookinFlat6]

Out of idle interest, is this a support thread or a hate thread?

just askin'.

Of course it's a hate thread. Any thread about McLaren, Jenson Button, Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes is a tapestry of petty hate and bickering.

Old news by now, of course.

I have only heard one poster on here actually admit they hate anyone, but I guess the bigger the mouth, the bigger the crap that it emits

[andrew]

Out of idle interest, is this a support thread or a hate thread?

just askin'.

Of course it's a hate thread. Any thread about McLaren, Jenson Button, Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes is a tapestry of petty hate and bickering. A delightful pot-pourri of sh!t.

Old news by now, of course.

You're predictions have come true it would seem. Changed days old fruit, changed days.

[Hammer278]

Out of idle interest, is this a support thread or a hate thread?

just askin'.

If you don't like it, you're very welcome to out of it. It's a free world.

Coming back to the topic at hand, even the most ardent McLaren supporter should be able to see there is something fundamentally wrong in the team. I have never seen any other team which is able to consistently churn out great cars, or at least machines which are capable of so much but simply do not deliver in the end, due to strategy, due to technical issues, whatever.

During the Mika VS Michael days, Ferrari with Brawn always outsmarted them with their pitwall instincts, while Mika had a faster car at his disposal. Ferrari still got results which their car never deserved simply for fast thinking, and this trend continues till today.

IMHO, many great McLaren cars have been wasted by the team, and many more will be wasted. But the great cars will continue coming, I'm sure of that.

[CookinFlat6]

For me Hammer, the day Ron left to concentrate on the road cars was the day Mclaren Project 4 became an ordinary F1 outfit in a cripplingly expensive sport. Why is Mclaren without Ron any different to Williams, Tyrell, March etc?
You get McLaren 'fans' claiming that its a pure racing team, and therefore more commited and somehow superior to the rich manufacturers

but isnt McLaren trying desperately to diversify to survive into cartoon making and....road car manufacture?

F1 is a competition, a competition where money speaks loudest, which is why we have the Red Bull phenomena, and which is why Ferrari built road cars to support their racing and now use the racing to market the road cars. They have a unique situation.
The F1 team as a stand alone business depending on sponsorship and backers is hardly viable even with resoursce restriction agreement which is why that didnt pan out

A Red Bull can outspend and recoup just about by success on track, a Mclaren is in no mans land and like Williams found out, its a very slippery slope

[Hammer278]

You might have a point, but McLaren are turning in record profits aren't they? Last I heard, their 2012 financials weren't shabby at all. But what you say holds true, their diversification has led to the downfall of the race team. It's through some miracle they won it in 2008 even, a combination of Lewis and a car that was UNUSUALLY reliable. But that happens very rarely for McLaren.

This year, they have a 2nd rate driver and a new guy thinking he actually has something to learn from mr.2nd rate. If McLaren are thinking Championship they need something completely out of the box, 2009-like and they have never ventured out of the box since I've watched the sport. The 3rd pedal which got banned in the 90s and the F-duct are at the top of my head...but didn't serve too much purpose in the end.

[CookinFlat6]

Running a succesfull business and winning at a competitive formula are 2 different things IMO. Swapping Lewis for Sergio tells us which is more important to Mclaren. Sure due to Rons energy the whole enterprise is strong, however only time will tell how important on track success is to the whole edifice.

It could even happen one day that Mclaren pull out of F1 because, like other teams with external business interests the F1 team is an expensive burden, assuming Mclarens other interests are sound

I am sure Ron would love to be in a position where the profits from external interests means he can do a Honda etc

But the external interests would have to become more like Mercedes and less like Williams because sponsors like to be on winning cars, cars getting coverage.

Is the F1 team supported by the other Mclaren businesses? Will having to pay Merc for engines create an inbalance in departmental profits

Interesting times ahead

[bud]

[youtube]_0wwk4EDYsw[/youtube]

[CookinFlat6]

The music is by Hans Zimmer from the 'Thin Red line'

very touching

[What's Burning?]

It's a very meaningful tribute.