FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[texasmr2]

Yes it must be very frustrating for very talented rookie's to be driving lorrie's compared to the rest of the field when they know they have the talent to produce good result's.

[racechick]

We'll have to see how he goes over the next few years. I base comparison with other rookies on two things
!. How good their team mate was and how the rookie stacked up against them
2. How they faired against others in previous formulae where cars were more equal.
Looking at that I think hamilton comes out top with Nicco a close second but as I said we'll have to wait and see.

[deMuRe]

I remember how excited people got with Button's first year at Williams.

Button could have become more than he is now if he hadn't been loaned to Benetton just to make way for Montoya. I was a little annoyed at this first because just a few years earlier Damon Hill had been offloaded by Sir Frank to make way for Frentzen - who did badly - and I was expecting Montoya to be just another Michael Andretti/Alex Zanardi flop, but I was wrong.

Button however really should have rejoined Williams when he was offered the chance to, he and Rosberg would have made a good combination.

EDIT: Derek Warwick was rated more highly than Nigel Mansell in the early 80's and was offered the Williams drive alonside Keke Rosberg in 1985 before he declined and stayed with Renault, then Williams offered Mansell the drive. Warwick never won a single race whilst Mansell became the current most successful British driver of all time. Could things have been different if Warwick had accepted the Williams offer? What would have happened to Mansell? He was offered a drive at Arrows.

It's amazing thinking how a driver's career could have folded out differently had he joined a different team.

Yeah I always felt for Button, I thought Williams were always going to put Monty in the car and it was a tease for Button.

I didn't feel so much for him afterwards with the whole Honda/Williams debacle.

I always thought it was a shame that Mika Salo couldn't stay at Ferrari, he just missed out by a couple of weeks as well...

[texasmr2]

Mika Salo played the role he was given and moved aside for Irvine so he could win the '99 German GP but now he is reaping the reward's of his loyalty with ferrari in the ALMS series. In the latest issue of F1 magazine there is a article on Salo and he say's he doe's not regret his tenure at Ferrari.

[deMuRe]

Mika Salo played the role he was given and moved aside for Irvine so he could win the '99 German GP but now he is reaping the reward's of his loyalty with ferrari in the ALMS series. In the latest issue of F1 magazine there is a article on Salo and he say's he doe's not regret his tenure at Ferrari.

I heard that Todt wanted him after he performed so well but they had already signed Rubens...

[7UpJordan]

Yeah I always felt for Button, I thought Williams were always going to put Monty in the car and it was a tease for Button.

I didn't feel so much for him afterwards with the whole Honda/Williams debacle.

I always thought it was a shame that Mika Salo couldn't stay at Ferrari, he just missed out by a couple of weeks as well...

Montoya was apparently due to join the team in 2000 but was still competing in Champ Car and would have to wait another year, so in the meantime they had a choice between Jenson Button and Bruno Junqeira.

Salo did well filling Schumacher's boots, especially his drive at Hockenheim, but like deMuRe said, it was too late as Rubens had already been signed for 2000. Had Salo not been caught drink-driving in 1990-ish, he could have made it onto the F1 grid earlier than 1994, perhaps even possibly before Hakkinen - his biggest rival - and achieve even more.

[AKR]

If you can cheat and not get caught then do it. McLaren is no different to anyone else and they would do it of they could. Everyone else. Whether it be motorsport, football, basketball etc. Money always talks. It is what keeps sport and business alive.

Or in West Ham's case cheat, and get caught, but then get away with a slap on the wrist fine which is literally peanuts to the club instead of all their points being taken away and being relegated just because "it's late in the season and it would be harsh on their fans".

Or cheat and get caught and then practicaly get away with it like AC Milan or Renault F1 team. *LOL* Regarding AC Milan, yeah irronically the then go on to win the UEFA Champions League and Club World Cup. A perfect example of cheaters always prosper if you know how and also how to get away with it if you get caught.

[AKR]

Yes but these employees all receive incentives for winning, that's all Alonso was trying to do, offer an extra incentive, it's a rather good idea.

Bollocks.

We all now know Hamilton was on his knees in front of Ron Dennis every night and it created an unfair advantage for Hamilton.

Do we? You must be the only one.

I know you think you are right McLaren fan

On this issue, yes, I know I am.

you constantly bombard this forum with cut and paste's from Autosport, the most biased publication known to mankind.

I see, so Autosport falsify team interviews, testing times, the transcripts from the Ferrari-FIA on the spy scandal, and other general motor sport's news?

you also have a fairly high opinion of yourself

No, it's just I have a low opinion of you. Given that you're so far down, you must think I'm aloof.

All bow to the gospel acording to Saint McLaren Fan.

[deMuRe]

Yeah I always felt for Button, I thought Williams were always going to put Monty in the car and it was a tease for Button.

I didn't feel so much for him afterwards with the whole Honda/Williams debacle.

I always thought it was a shame that Mika Salo couldn't stay at Ferrari, he just missed out by a couple of weeks as well...

Montoya was apparently due to join the team in 2000 but was still competing in Champ Car and would have to wait another year, so in the meantime they had a choice between Jenson Button and Bruno Junqeira.

Salo did well filling Schumacher's boots, especially his drive at Hockenheim, but like deMuRe said, it was too late as Rubens had already been signed for 2000. Had Salo not been caught drink-driving in 1990-ish, he could have made it onto the F1 grid earlier than 1994, perhaps even possibly before Hakkinen - his biggest rival - and achieve even more.

LoL, drink driving, that sounds like Mika... He was always a Maniac on his snow mobiles...

[7UpJordan]

If you can cheat and not get caught then do it. McLaren is no different to anyone else and they would do it of they could. Everyone else. Whether it be motorsport, football, basketball etc. Money always talks. It is what keeps sport and business alive.

Or in West Ham's case cheat, and get caught, but then get away with a slap on the wrist fine which is literally peanuts to the club instead of all their points being taken away and being relegated just because "it's late in the season and it would be harsh on their fans".

Or cheat and get caught and then practicaly get away with it like AC Milan or Renault F1 team. *LOL* Regarding AC Milan, yeah irronically the then go on to win the UEFA Champions League and Club World Cup. A perfect example of cheaters always prosper if you know how and also how to get away with it if you get caught.

I wonder what Juventus fans would have thought to that, they got relegated to Serie B, can you imagine Manchester United or Arsenal being relegated to the Championship?? Chelsea though were there not long ago as 1989 (when it was called Division 2), bet a lot of their fans at Stamford Bridge now won't have been there in the 80's.

[AKR]

If you can cheat and not get caught then do it. McLaren is no different to anyone else and they would do it of they could. Everyone else. Whether it be motorsport, football, basketball etc. Money always talks. It is what keeps sport and business alive.

Or in West Ham's case cheat, and get caught, but then get away with a slap on the wrist fine which is literally peanuts to the club instead of all their points being taken away and being relegated just because "it's late in the season and it would be harsh on their fans".

Or cheat and get caught and then practicaly get away with it like AC Milan or Renault F1 team. *LOL* Regarding AC Milan, yeah irronically the then go on to win the UEFA Champions League and Club World Cup. A perfect example of cheaters always prosper if you know how and also how to get away with it if you get caught.

I wonder what Juventus fans would have thought to that, they got relegated to Serie B, can you imagine Manchester United or Arsenal being relegated to the Championship?? Chelsea though were there not long ago as 1989 (when it was called Division 2), bet a lot of their fans at Stamford Bridge now won't have been there in the 80's.

I am a Juventus supporter and I was pissed off. And you know why Juve paid for the scandal and not AC Milan? Because Juve tried to be honest and Milan didn't. See honesty doesn't pay. Ron Dennis should of done the same and lied all the way. He to may of gotten away with it. In the football case at least AC Milan is my second favorite team and ended winning in Europe and the World

[McLaren Fan]

A point on Hamilton, now that you bring that up. Everyone is rating him so highly, many say he's better than certain previous championship drivers. I constantly get lines like this from people:

"Of course Hamilton is better than [insert brilliant driver]! He almost won the championship in his first season, matching the performance of a two-times world champion!"

How many times do you have to tell them that it's hard to compare like that because the others started off in relatively uncompetitive cars. Saying that, they still outperformed their vehicles. But only proper fans actually realise that. The majority of those who started watching F1 properly because of Hamilton-mania have no idea.

I agree. For me Hamilton's biggest achievement was not that he could compete with Alonso, after all, McLaren have been training him up for years in all aspects of Formula One, from driving to PR. His biggest strength was his mentality, for, borrowing a few errors, he was able to deal with the pressure of the whole situation and knock in some brilliant qualifying laps.

When you take into account the performance of the cars (and, if you want, the fact no other driver has been trained up by a Formula One team), the best-performing rookie for me is Ayrton Senna.

[Martin]

A point on Hamilton, now that you bring that up. Everyone is rating him so highly, many say he's better than certain previous championship drivers. I constantly get lines like this from people:

"Of course Hamilton is better than [insert brilliant driver]! He almost won the championship in his first season, matching the performance of a two-times world champion!"

How many times do you have to tell them that it's hard to compare like that because the others started off in relatively uncompetitive cars. Saying that, they still outperformed their vehicles. But only proper fans actually realise that. The majority of those who started watching F1 properly because of Hamilton-mania have no idea.

I agree. For me Hamilton's biggest achievement was not that he could compete with Alonso, after all, McLaren have been training him up for years in all aspects of Formula One, from driving to PR. His biggest strength was his mentality, for, borrowing a few errors, he was able to deal with the pressure of the whole situation and knock in some brilliant qualifying laps.

When you take into account the performance of the cars (and, if you want, the fact no other driver has been trained up by a Formula One team), the best-performing rookie for me is Ayrton Senna.

Alain Prost says that L.H. is favourite for this years WDC. He thinks that when push comes to shove LH can outdrive the Iceman.

[McLaren Fan]

Alain Prost says that L.H. is favourite for this years WDC. He thinks that when push comes to shove LH can outdrive the Iceman.

It depends what Iceman Hamilton comes up against. When Raikkonen is on form, nobody is faster than him. The about is that he does not always apply himself as fully as he could do, and thus a driver who may not be as fast has a good chance of winning races and championships because he keeps his head down and catches Raikkonen napping.

There are some parallels to be found with the Senna and Prost battles. Prost knew that he was maybe not quite as fast, certainly in qualifying (for in the odd race when Prost decided he was not going to save the car, he was blindingly fast), but he knew if he sat tight, Senna would burn the car out. That's not to say Raikkonen does that, but it illustrates the point about another driver just hanging in there whilst his opponent has an off-patch etc.

[Stephen]

Kimi can be lazy, and gets bored quickly. Take Fuji last season, he was hopeless at the start of the race - all over the place - but when it mattered he performed some seemingly impossible overtaking moves, which later helped him win the Championship in 2007.