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[McLaren Fan]

Yes but these employees all receive incentives for winning, that's all Alonso was trying to do, offer an extra incentive, it's a rather good idea.

Bollocks.

We all now know Hamilton was on his knees in front of Ron Dennis every night and it created an unfair advantage for Hamilton.

Do we? You must be the only one.

I know you think you are right McLaren fan

On this issue, yes, I know I am.

you constantly bombard this forum with cut and paste's from Autosport, the most biased publication known to mankind.

I see, so Autosport falsify team interviews, testing times, the transcripts from the Ferrari-FIA on the spy scandal, and other general motor sport's news?

you also have a fairly high opinion of yourself

No, it's just I have a low opinion of you. Given that you're so far down, you must think I'm aloof.

[darwin dali]

F1-Live.com
Ecclestone on Ron Dennis
As reports emerged on Wednesday speculating about Ron Dennis' position at McLaren, Bernie Ecclestone has admitted that the espionage affair 'damaged' the veteran team boss.

"He got all the stick, didn't he," F1's Chief Executive told the Mirror. "That's how it is."

Ecclestone thinks Dennis could have limited his personal damage by apologising earlier.

"If he didn't know what was going on, perhaps he should have known. And he should have apologised immediately. If he did know what was going on, he should have apologised immediately, too."


I have to say, I completely agree with BE here. In defense of RD however, having observed him for quite a long time, I didn't really expect anything different from RD than what we got last year: Once an arrogant, aloof, stubborn arsehole always an arrogant, aloof, stubborn arsehole...

[7UpJordan]

If you can cheat and not get caught then do it. McLaren is no different to anyone else and they would do it of they could. Everyone else. Whether it be motorsport, football, basketball etc. Money always talks. It is what keeps sport and business alive.

Or in West Ham's case cheat, and get caught, but then get away with a slap on the wrist fine which is literally peanuts to the club instead of all their points being taken away and being relegated just because "it's late in the season and it would be harsh on their fans".

[racechick]

F1-Live.com
Ecclestone on Ron Dennis
As reports emerged on Wednesday speculating about Ron Dennis' position at McLaren, Bernie Ecclestone has admitted that the espionage affair 'damaged' the veteran team boss.

"He got all the stick, didn't he," F1's Chief Executive told the Mirror. "That's how it is."

Ecclestone thinks Dennis could have limited his personal damage by apologising earlier.

"If he didn't know what was going on, perhaps he should have known. And he should have apologised immediately. If he did know what was going on, he should have apologised immediately, too."


I have to say, I completely agree with BE here. In defense of RD however, having observed him for quite a long time, I didn't really expect anything different from RD than what we got last year: Once an arrogant, aloof, stubborn arsehole always an arrogant, aloof, stubborn arsehole...

So the punishment for not apologising is 100 million dollors is it? Thats one mighty big ego Max has!!!
And DD you know Ron dennis personally do you? I know someone who does and he does not describe him as "an arrogant, aloof, stubborn arsehole"

[darwin dali]

You are sooooo innocent Mikeybabe . McLaren will ony have to look at Ferrari car or pass the time of day with a Ferrari employee and the poison dwaarf will run to the FIA crying
"Uncle Max, uncle Max, they're cheating again"
Better be safe than sorry with Ferrari and the FIA. They will already be looking for ways to win next year off the track

Not convinced. Maybe the poison dwarf hypnotised you at some point

I'm sure if you talk to F1 insiders who know people, they wouldn't use the term 'poison dwarf' either.

I think $100m is maybe one buck per F1 fan - that's a very cheap apology if you ask me.

[deMuRe]

As nobody else is taking the fight to Ferrari F1 need's McLaren to race next year. If they really wanted to cripple McLaren they would have made the figure a lot higher.

Ron's days are numbered, the Mercedes Board of Directors will not put up with this whole ordeal, even his wife has abandoned ship.

You reap what you sow...

[deMuRe]

Alonso offering money as an incentive is the lifeblood of F1, how do you think everyone else gets paid?

Blind is not the word...

What the f*** are you on? The mechanics, drivers, engineers, whoever are all employees of McLaren and are contracted and paid by McLaren to do what McLaren want.

By your magnificently inept logic it would be fine for you, in your job, to pay a colleague to do something totally different from what he is paid to do by the company.

Some of your posts have been absolutely hilarious, laced with nothing but spurious anti-McLaren slander, but this, with its decadent stupidity, is easily the most ridiculous.

Yes but these employees all receive incentives for winning, that's all Alonso was trying to do, offer an extra incentive, it's a rather good idea. We all now know Hamilton was on his knees in front of Ron Dennis every night and it created an unfair advantage for Hamilton.

No need for name calling, I'm just saying if you can put your hand on your heart and say you are proud of McCheaters after they dragged the entire sport into disrepute then you are more blind then Stevie Wonder walking around in the dark.

I know you think you are right McLaren fan, you also have a fairly high opinion of yourself, but you constantly bombard this forum with cut and paste's from Autosport, the most biased publication known to mankind. I know you regurgitate their logic and try to outsmart us all with your one sided 'McLaren can do no wrong' dribble, why don't you be honest with us and admit how disappointed you are in your own team instead of trying to ignore the pain with constant justifications...

How can you talk about Hamilton having unfair advantages when you support Ferrari with a Schumacher picture on your avatar
For your information until Alonso cheated and tried to blackmail Ron Dennis he often had the better strategy, Monacco being a prime example.

Schumacher built a team around him and provided the right leadership with devastating effect. That's what leaders do. Just so happened that he wasn't too shabby behind the wheel either.

Different situation with Hamilton, he walked into a top drive, didn't do anything to earn it, all of a sudden he's got more political clout then a 2 time world champion?

Ron Dennis should have told hamilton to hold station for his 1st season and learn as much as possible, for whatever reason Hamilton was given freedom and political protection. Hamilton hadn't earnt his right to be the team bosses darling, there's a big difference.

[Denthúl]

A point on Hamilton, now that you bring that up. Everyone is rating him so highly, many say he's better than certain previous championship drivers. I constantly get lines like this from people:

"Of course Hamilton is better than [insert brilliant driver]! He almost won the championship in his first season, matching the performance of a two-times world champion!"

How many times do you have to tell them that it's hard to compare like that because the others started off in relatively uncompetitive cars. Saying that, they still outperformed their vehicles. But only proper fans actually realise that. The majority of those who started watching F1 properly because of Hamilton-mania have no idea.

[deMuRe]

A point on Hamilton, now that you bring that up. Everyone is rating him so highly, many say he's better than certain previous championship drivers. I constantly get lines like this from people:

"Of course Hamilton is better than [insert brilliant driver]! He almost won the championship in his first season, matching the performance of a two-times world champion!"

How many times do you have to tell them that it's hard to compare like that because the others started off in relatively uncompetitive cars. Saying that, they still outperformed their vehicles. But only proper fans actually realise that. The majority of those who started watching F1 properly because of Hamilton-mania have no idea.

I remember how excited people got with Button's first year at Williams.

[texasmr2]

A point on Hamilton, now that you bring that up. Everyone is rating him so highly, many say he's better than certain previous championship drivers. I constantly get lines like this from people:

"Of course Hamilton is better than [insert brilliant driver]! He almost won the championship in his first season, matching the performance of a two-times world champion!"

How many times do you have to tell them that it's hard to compare like that because the others started off in relatively uncompetitive cars. Saying that, they still outperformed their vehicles. But only proper fans actually realise that. The majority of those who started watching F1 properly because of Hamilton-mania have no idea.

So very true. I do think Lewis is a great driver but he would would not have had those result's if he was not in one of the two best team's.

[racechick]

True of course but he still excelled expectation. Not many rookies could have done what he did even with that machine.(Im not one of those who only heard about him this year, Ive watched him lots before, even in carts)

[7UpJordan]

I remember how excited people got with Button's first year at Williams.

Button could have become more than he is now if he hadn't been loaned to Benetton just to make way for Montoya. I was a little annoyed at this first because just a few years earlier Damon Hill had been offloaded by Sir Frank to make way for Frentzen - who did badly - and I was expecting Montoya to be just another Michael Andretti/Alex Zanardi flop, but I was wrong.

Button however really should have rejoined Williams when he was offered the chance to, he and Rosberg would have made a good combination.

EDIT: Derek Warwick was rated more highly than Nigel Mansell in the early 80's and was offered the Williams drive alonside Keke Rosberg in 1985 before he declined and stayed with Renault, then Williams offered Mansell the drive. Warwick never won a single race whilst Mansell became the current most successful British driver of all time. Could things have been different if Warwick had accepted the Williams offer? What would have happened to Mansell? He was offered a drive at Arrows.

It's amazing thinking how a driver's career could have folded out differently had he joined a different team.

[texasmr2]

True of course but he still excelled expectation. Not many rookies could have done what he did even with that machine.

This is also very true imo.

[racechick]

Montoya is quality!!

[Denthúl]

That may be true, but there is absolutely no way of telling, since the rookies who may have done it were not presented with such an opportunity. Which is why it bugs me. What I find more impressive than a rookie performing greatly in what is arguably the best car on the grid is a rookie performing greatly in a car that, to be honest, should never get into the points.

Yes, he is exceptionally talented, his karting and GP2 performances were somewhat amazing, but he's not the only one to have won many lower racing series before graduating to Formula 1. He has talent, yes, but to try to compare him against drivers who weren't given such an opportunity in their rookie year is just silly and, when people start to get passionate about it (despite the fact that half of their knowledge is grossly inaccurate to say the lea) it gets annoying.