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[andrew]

Max Mosley would like this thread.

[stonemonkey]

Wonder how they'll deal with the increase in power available from ERS and the lower rev limit.

[Jabberwocky]

It all leads to worn out rear tyre which is always good for racing

[stonemonkey]

I'm thinking more about how at the moment they end up hitting the rev limit at which point the KERS is of no use, maybe with more energy available for longer they'll be able to use higher gearing but it could be more of a balancing act and be even more important. The tyres could be a big part of that balancing act too.

[What's Burning?]

Williams may turn out to be the sleeper team with all the changes.

[Jabberwocky]

Will the Williams flywheel KERS work better with the new rules?

[stonemonkey]

They've not been using that in F1, I'm not sure what the reason is but it might've been something in the regs.

Wiki says it was due to packaging problems so they developed their own battery system, if that's the case then a bigger flywheel would be a bigger problem although maybe a flywheel wouldn't need to scale up at the same rate as batteries.

[Jabberwocky]

From memory it was to do with either the COfG was too high, or it weighed too much. I seem to remember that it was easier to increase the storage of energy as the rules allowed. So now if more power is needed, more batteries might reduce the weight issue.

[racechick]

There's a lot for these boffins to get their heads stuck into for 2014 isn't there.

[scotty]

From memory it was to do with either the COfG was too high, or it weighed too much. I seem to remember that it was easier to increase the storage of energy as the rules allowed. So now if more power is needed, more batteries might reduce the weight issue.

Yes, i suspect the flywheel is more feasible under the new regs. Audi run that exact Williams system in their LMP1 cars i think, to moderately successful effect - although i believe Toyota's system is more outright powerful (obviously the rules are different there - the only limit is, i think, on how much energy can be harvested under braking).

Another significant introduction that has recieved very little discussion is the Thermal ERS. I haven't seen any articles or info on this anywhere (so if anyone has, please post) and the engineering side of it hasn't recieved much attention in the public either AFAIK. Depending on how this is likely to be implemented (i know nothing about this sort of technology), it could be a real performance differentiator, so i'm surprised it has recieved such little attention. Although perhaps that just suggests that the technology is still not very effective at the moment.

[Jabberwocky]

Whenever I think of heat energy regeneration I just imagine someone trying to weld a steam engine and using the exhaust or brakes to heat the water

[scotty]

Is it possible to use something like a thermocouple to charge a capacitor?

[andrew]

A quick search on Google found this,

Heat is recovered by a single turbine that also drives the turbo compressor. The excess power not needed for the compressor will be generating electricity in a unit called MGUH. This electricity is immediately fed to the kinetic MGU that drives the rear wheels.

This I understand but what I'm not sure on is how is the heat recovered by the turbine and where is it harvested from? Brakes? Exhausts, engine, the drivers sweaty backside on the seat or from a combination of all heat generating devices on the car?

[stonemonkey]

Is it possible to use something like a thermocouple to charge a capacitor?

Yep, but I'm sure I looked that up or there was discussion before and you didn't get much out a thermocouple.

Whenever I think of heat energy regeneration I just imagine someone trying to weld a steam engine and using the exhaust or brakes to heat the water

Stirling engine?

A quick search on Google found this,

Heat is recovered by a single turbine that also drives the turbo compressor. The excess power not needed for the compressor will be generating electricity in a unit called MGUH. This electricity is immediately fed to the kinetic MGU that drives the rear wheels.

This I understand but what I'm not sure on is how is the heat recovered by the turbine and where is it harvested from? Brakes? Exhausts, engine, the drivers sweaty backside on the seat or from a combination of all heat generating devices on the car?

That looks to me like it's just the energy from the exhaust turbine that's left over after driving the compressor.

[What's Burning?]

Mercedes-Benz says the 2014 engine regulations are "about putting the motor back into motor sport".

The current 2.4-litre V8 engines will be replaced by 1.6-litre V6 turbo power units, with the term also encompassing the KERS, new ERS (Energy Recovery System), battery and electronics. Mercedes is attempting to make a unit that delivers 750bhp - the same as the current engines - but uses a maximum of 100kg of fuel compared to the current level of 150kg.

I thought today's engines made 850 bhp?!?