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[al4x]

itll be impossible to cover up if it is a cover up, people getting sacked wanting revenge, autobiogs etc,

its the drivers that will be feeling it bad, imagine being kimi, and knowing that you didnt win, bbut to everyone you did, i wouldnt like it!

i remember saying that it was a good job ferrari won to ease the possible ramifications brought to mclaren, if mclaren hadve won ferrari would have dragged it through court after court, but id rather that than later find out it was a setup!

i is unlike mclaren to throw it away like that! lewis and the gravel trap comes to mind!

but were theres this much money its quite feasible.....unfortunatly!

none of us will find out until someone involved comes out with it, it would do serious damage, and ferrari would be absolutly hated by everyone but the hard core tifosi! i wouldnt want to drive for them if it were true!

[Stealthgate007]

That your scenario of staging has one big flaw though: there was no guarantee that KR's car wouldn't break down in the last three races. Had it broken down only once (or he screwed up a corner or somtin') that whole scenario would not have worked. What then you smart asses, huh? How could the FIA have made sure Ferrari wins the driver's title?
And how many people would have to be in on this for it to work? And how many McLaren insiders would have noticed something's fishy (even on a behavioral level such as doing things hush hush) and they all kept quiet, even though they were already fuming about the FIA and Ferrari? Alternatively, there was an internal directive to everybody involved that obligated everybody to keep quiet? And every single one of them kept their mouth shut?
A bunch of baloney that's what this scenario is

Have you ever worked for a company that told you one thing and did another? Or have you heard of people getting laid off with no particular warning, because their company folded or was bought out? I am just saying high level orchestration happens all the time.

[woody2goody]

I've thought for years that there's something going on. It just seems like every time Ferrari are challenged in the championship they come up with some way of cheating their way to victory.

In 2003 with the Michelin tyre fiasco, at a time where Ferrari had been beaten by McLaren, Williams and even Renault. Even Mark Webber's Jaguar on Michelins beat Michael in Hungary. The result: Michelin teams are suspiciously uncompetitive in the last few races of the season.

In 2005 they were too uncompetitive to be gifted the championship, but at the USGP they were (possibly rightly) the only opponent to the installation of a chicane. However, I wonder if for example Renault had the same objection on their own, whether the FIA would have ruled in a similar way.

In '06 there was the Felipe Massa/Alonso blocking fiasco, not before the banning of the mass damper which made Renault lose ground to Ferrari at the end of the season.

And of course we had Spygate or whatever it's called in '07. I don't know why Ferrari weren't punished for an irresponsible action by ONE OF THEIR employees. This, whether intentionally or not, caused Coughlan to be stupid and take the documents in question.

Also, about McLaren maybe being told to lose the championship, maybe that's why Hamilton went off in China, and why they didn't bring him in for a tyre change. Maybe he was told to, or someone else messed with his car in Brazil. For example he may have been told to engage neutral and sit there for just long enough to make it believeable. After all, the chances of both events happening are very very slim. In the case of the Shanghai incident, easily preventable.

Come to think of it they made dubious sporting decisions in '02 and '04 when they were dominating, so maybe they need to be brought down a peg or two. They are the most arrogant team in F1 by far. I was a Ferrari fan before they developed this 'win at all costs mentality'. F1 needs to consider it's morals as well as it's image from time to time.

[bud]

yes woody there is always an off track scandal whenever Ferrari is challenged on the track in this decade!

youre also forgetting the vote to return to tyre changes all michelin teams except one voted in favour to retain the one tyre per race rule for 2006, that one team had just signed a deal to use Ferrari engines..
manipulative f***s arent they!!!

[Mikep99]

That your scenario of staging has one big flaw though: there was no guarantee that KR's car wouldn't break down in the last three races. Had it broken down only once (or he screwed up a corner or somtin') that whole scenario would not have worked. What then you smart asses, huh? How could the FIA have made sure Ferrari wins the driver's title?
And how many people would have to be in on this for it to work? And how many McLaren insiders would have noticed something's fishy (even on a behavioral level such as doing things hush hush) and they all kept quiet, even though they were already fuming about the FIA and Ferrari? Alternatively, there was an internal directive to everybody involved that obligated everybody to keep quiet? And every single one of them kept their mouth shut?
A bunch of baloney that's what this scenario is :roll:

DD, I don't think you need one of these



OR one of these



to work that out.

DD apart from your little pick at the theory on how Kimi won the WDC because of a setup, what about

2007 was Ferrari's 60th anniversary and it has been a known
fact that if they did not win the constructors championship
that they would of lost millions of dollars.

So Ferrari is the only team that wins money if it is champion??
I would have though the FIA had a bigger marketing tool if a Rookie won the thing,

A setup perhaps? Maybe just maybe Stepnay was setup. He
was delibrately given the Ferrari documents by Ferrari to
give to Coughan and then the rest was all a pretence to
make it look like a scandal and McLaren gets done. I would
believe this. Why not?.

Tell me HOW do you deliberately give documents to someone who already has access to it
Tell me HOW you make someone give sensitive information to your main opposition & get them to believe your not setting them up. Stepnay must be a DH
Tell me HOW you make an employee from another team use this information inappropriately.

If McLaren's car is as quick as
Ferrari's and legit and they now have a big chance to
clinch the title and if Ferrari don't win they will loose
millions why not stuff the oppenent up through the legal
system instead? When all was very much lost Ferrari said the
only chance they had of winning was throughh the courts.
A chance they had good odds at since the scandal was all
made for Ferrari.

Ferrari only considered everything was lost very late in the season just before McLaren self distrusted.
Tell me how Ferrari knew on or before 28-4-07 (The date the documents were supposedly exchanged) that they would be behind the eight ball later on in the year.
As of the 28-4-07 Ferrari had 2 Firsts & 2 Thirds - McLaren had 1 first 3 seconds & 1 Thirds. This is hardly panic mode material for them to consider setting up McLaren just to win.

If this is a very thought out theory then I am one dumb SOB.

It’s only my opinion of corse & if eventually my opinion is proven wrong I will eat that big baloney sandwich & also a big piece of humble pie.
But until then

Isn’t it funny that still McLaren can do no wrong? (All you hear are IF's - & - But's)
By the way did you know that IF my aunty had ball’s she would be my uncle.

[al4x]

In '06 there was the Felipe Massa/Alonso blocking fiasco, not before the banning of the mass damper which made Renault lose ground to Ferrari at the end of the season.

i remember the mass damper bit grrr! it got close!

[woody2goody]

yes woody there is always an off track scandal whenever Ferrari is challenged on the track in this decade!

youre also forgetting the vote to return to tyre changes all michelin teams except one voted in favour to retain the one tyre per race rule for 2006, that one team had just signed a deal to use Ferrari engines..
manipulative f***s arent they!!!

That's one that I missed, but at the time I wondered why they'd listen to two teams over the other 9 but there you go.

For anyone who wants to say that I'm Ferrari bashing - I was a Ferrari fan up until 2002 when they started pissing around with the sport. Ever since they have employed dubious tactics at every opportunity.

I wonder how Michael's Monaco parking incident would have been punished if it was another driver, for example, Alonso or Fisi. A deduction of points, a suspension? Possibly.

Another thing that got me in '07 was the deduction of points in Hungary. Spygate rendered this ultimately irrelevant, but why did the FIA decide to confiscate points when surely it was a matter that needed to be resolved WITHIN THE TEAM. It was none of the FIA's business.

When Ferrari purposely disobeyed the sport's rules in Japan by putting on the wrong tyres, they were only punished by getting drive throughs i think. But McLaren didn't break any rules as a team in Hungary. Maybe Alonso did by blocking Hamilton, but the five-place penalty was probably fair, and they didn't need to interfere with McLaren any more. I doubt Ferrari would have got a team penalty as well as a driver one.

[darwin dali]

When Ferrari purposely disobeyed the sport's rules in Japan by putting on the wrong tyres, they were only punished by getting drive throughs i think.

They didn't break the rules on purpose. They didn't get the email that made wet tires mandatory. They could prove that and the protocol since has changed, i.e., it's email plus the old fashioned way that communications are delivered to the teams.

If it wasn't such a sad spectacle to watch you McLaren guys drivel and get your knickers in a twist, it would be almost amusing to see you try to one up each other in uttering utterly biased crap against Ferrari

[bud]

Tell me how Ferrari knew on or before 28-4-07 (The date the documents were supposedly exchanged) that they would be behind the eight ball later on in the year.
As of the 28-4-07 Ferrari had 2 Firsts & 2 Thirds - McLaren had 1 first 3 seconds & 1 Thirds. This is hardly panic mode material for them to consider setting up McLaren just to win.

I dont think Ferrari went out to purposely put Stepney up to it (even if Stepney still wont admit to giving the dossier to Coughlan) in order to set up McLaren.
But what i do find is that Ferrari took advantage of what had happened, they themselves had no evidence that McLaren had used it but went out making claims that they did and putting the FIA up to investigating McLaren (while they did nothing in regards to the FIA when Toyota had used Ferrari information previously) all this came to the fore front just after Monte Carlo when McLaren won by over 1 minute to Ferrari. Coincidence na just deliberate manipulation of the situtation to favour themselves off track.

and the saddest part about this is Ferrari arent shy about winning the 2007 constructors title the way they did, they have on the engine intake of the F2008 the contructor title emblem...

[bud]

When Ferrari purposely disobeyed the sport's rules in Japan by putting on the wrong tyres, they were only punished by getting drive throughs i think.

They didn't break the rules on purpose. They didn't get the email that made wet tires mandatory. They could prove that and the protocol since has changed, i.e., it's email plus the old fashioned way that communications are delivered to the teams.

aside from the "email story" which even super aguri managed to get, maybe its the shitty acer computers Ferrari use? but wouldnt it be common sense that you would start on the tyre made for extreme wet conditions if the start of the race is under the safety car?

its not like race control just decided it would be fun to start the race that way eh?

[darwin dali]

Well, they wanted to take a risk, so let them. And your reference to common sense also implies that it was an honest mistake - why would they shoot themselves in the foot on purpose that way? Similar to the tire issue McLaren had in practice.

Geez! Why are we reheating all this cold coffee? It's a matter of just a couple more weeks - can everybody relax and start getting in the mood to enjoy the first race?! This is rather tiresome...

[woody2goody]

When Ferrari purposely disobeyed the sport's rules in Japan by putting on the wrong tyres, they were only punished by getting drive throughs i think.

They didn't break the rules on purpose. They didn't get the email that made wet tires mandatory. They could prove that and the protocol since has changed, i.e., it's email plus the old fashioned way that communications are delivered to the teams.

If it wasn't such a sad spectacle to watch you McLaren guys drivel and get your knickers in a twist, it would be almost amusing to see you try to one up each other in uttering utterly biased crap against Ferrari

McLaren guy eh? As I said, I was a Ferrari fan, but as they went sleazy and I've never particularly liked McLaren, I'm actually a Renault and, can't you see the signature, BMW fan.

I would have said the same if Ferrari were being treated unfairly.

[woody2goody]

When Ferrari purposely disobeyed the sport's rules in Japan by putting on the wrong tyres, they were only punished by getting drive throughs i think.

They didn't break the rules on purpose. They didn't get the email that made wet tires mandatory. They could prove that and the protocol since has changed, i.e., it's email plus the old fashioned way that communications are delivered to the teams.

aside from the "email story" which even super aguri managed to get, maybe its the shitty acer computers Ferrari use? but wouldnt it be common sense that you would start on the tyre made for extreme wet conditions if the start of the race is under the safety car?

its not like race control just decided it would be fun to start the race that way eh?

Exactly. They should have realised it was DANGEROUS before they started spinning off behind the safety car. That's surely common sense for F1's most successful team.

[darwin dali]

As you can see (had you read my post more carefully) I said McLaren guyS, plural as in more than one, not YOU in particular, the whole lot of you guys who are engaged in this clusterfook of Ferrari bashing.

[darwin dali]

When Ferrari purposely disobeyed the sport's rules in Japan by putting on the wrong tyres, they were only punished by getting drive throughs i think.

They didn't break the rules on purpose. They didn't get the email that made wet tires mandatory. They could prove that and the protocol since has changed, i.e., it's email plus the old fashioned way that communications are delivered to the teams.

aside from the "email story" which even super aguri managed to get, maybe its the shitty acer computers Ferrari use? but wouldnt it be common sense that you would start on the tyre made for extreme wet conditions if the start of the race is under the safety car?

its not like race control just decided it would be fun to start the race that way eh?

Exactly. They should have realised it was DANGEROUS before they started spinning off behind the safety car. That's surely common sense for F1's most successful team.

There you go - finally it clicked even with you guys.
Now, do I start a new thread about how McLaren somehow intercepted and delayed that wet tire email to dupe Ferrari into starting the race on intermediates? NO! Or maybe I should, just to show how ridiculous this all is...