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[mnmracer]

[youtube]bSnX2QTsQlY[/youtube]

Man, that was a highlight of the season for me....

Amen. That was edge of the seat-stuff!

[FerrariFan63]

...

Of course it could be done much more in-depth, GIVEN INFINITE TIME, but such is not available.
That's why I don't go around proclaiming "this or this driver is the best overtaker, and this is my back-up".
I am not claiming to have the time to do such an in-depth research, nor do I claim this is.
I present the data in the best context I feel this data can be presented.

So please tell me, given this processed set of available data, what could have been improved?
Should I have just let this data go to waste? Or at least make use of it as good or bad possible?

I think you should have posted the data with the simplest measure, but then explained why the data doesn't really put the drivers into a reliable rank order of how good they are at overtaking. And left it at that. That would have taken much less time than what you did, and left you time over to go look at some good sources on statistics and data analysis.

[andrew]

You could always offer an alternative rather than crapping all over mnmracers. I saw where mnmracer had posted these originally and there was none of this complaining and fault finding.

Thanks dude for going to the effort and sharing these with us.

[racechick]

I think this year Vettel has gone some way to answering the question that he cannot overtake. But it should be remembered that in the first half of the season he was coming from behind and for two races he was starting right from the back. That will skew overtaking statistics in his favour.

[andrew]

Some way?1 He's gone all the way!

[racechick]

I don't think so.

[FerrariFan63]

You could always offer an alternative rather than crapping all over mnmracers. I saw where mnmracer had posted these originally and there was none of this complaining and fault finding.

I did offer alternatives. First, I said that he shouldn't be making up new stats after seeing the data. And second I said that if he wanted to make up a new stat, he should do so now, justifying any complexity in his calculation, so that he can use it in the future. I've given him terms which he can google to actually learn how to do this kind of statistics gathering properly in the future. So I have offered alternatives, and I believe the correct alternatives. And this is very, very, far from being "crapping all over mnmracers". On the contrary I've given him advice that if he actually followed, he could cure his ignorance and learn a very useful skill.

And you seem to be blaming those who are "fault finding" and "complaining". Perhaps the blame should lie with mnmracers for actually posting the faulty reasoning in the first place. And if there was none of this "complaining and fault finding" on some other forum, then perhaps that says something quite bad about the other place where "these" were posted before. Rather than there being anything wrong with what has been posted in this thread.

[andrew]

I don't think so.

How so?

You could always offer an alternative rather than crapping all over mnmracers. I saw where mnmracer had posted these originally and there was none of this complaining and fault finding.

I did offer alternatives. First, I said that he shouldn't be making up new stats after seeing the data. And second I said that if he wanted to make up a new stat, he should do so now, justifying any complexity in his calculation, so that he can use it in the future. I've given him terms which he can google to actually learn how to do this kind of statistics gathering properly in the future. So I have offered alternatives, and I believe the correct alternatives. And this is very, very, far from being "crapping all over mnmracers". On the contrary I've given him advice that if he actually followed, he could cure his ignorance and learn a very useful skill.

And you seem to be blaming those who are "fault finding" and "complaining". Perhaps the blame should lie with mnmracers for actually posting the faulty reasoning in the first place. And if there was none of this "complaining and fault finding" on some other forum, then perhaps that says something quite bad about the other place where "these" were posted before. Rather than there being anything wrong with what has been posted in this thread.

I'm not blaming anyone. All I'm saying is that if you're not satisfied with what mnmracer has produced, why not produce your own version? I simply cannot stand seeing someone who has clearly gone to a lot of time and effort to produce something that they didn't have to and all they get in return is a heap of flak and no thanks. Maybe it is flawed but there are ways to say how you think it can be improved without pouring derision all over someones work. Admittedly the other site is a bit quieter than here but all the responses to these stat's there were much more conversational with no aggression.

Mayber the way forward is to produce an example of what you think mnmracer should have put forward for our consideration?

[scotty]

You could always offer an alternative rather than crapping all over mnmracers. I saw where mnmracer had posted these originally and there was none of this complaining and fault finding.

I did offer that, but there was no response. And there still isn't, from anyone including yourself (yet you still ask for it - maybe you should re-read the thread). Which feels quite telling to me. If you are referring to F1Technical as the other forum, then... well, i'm not saying anything more cause i saw how that has ended. Exactly the same as here so far, i just hope it doesn't actually end the same way.

[What's Burning?]

I don't think so.

How so?

Did you see what happened to him in Brazil when he lost a few spots at the start and then tried to overtake by braking late and going wide? Raikkonen and Button went half way around the circuit side by side without as much as a kiss of the tires.

[FerrariFan63]

I'm not blaming anyone. All I'm saying is that if you're not satisfied with what mnmracer has produced, why not produce your own version?

As Scott says, go back and re-read the thread. I said over and over that his first, straightforward, version was the one he should have stopped at. Given that, what do you mean that I should "produce [my] own"? That simply makes no sense and the only conclusion I can make is that you haven't read the thread. In which case, why are you commenting on it?

[LRW]

You could always offer an alternative rather than crapping all over mnmracers. I saw where mnmracer had posted these originally and there was none of this complaining and fault finding.

I did offer that, but there was no response. And there still isn't, from anyone including yourself (yet you still ask for it - maybe you should re-read the thread). Which feels quite telling to me. If you are referring to F1Technical as the other forum, then... well, i'm not saying anything more cause i saw how that has ended. Exactly the same as here so far, i just hope it doesn't actually end the same way.

Ha ha. That thread actually seems worse.

Maybe that's why mnmracer has posted here, as he isn't getting the praise he thinks he deserves....?

[andrew]

You could always offer an alternative rather than crapping all over mnmracers. I saw where mnmracer had posted these originally and there was none of this complaining and fault finding.

I did offer that, but there was no response. And there still isn't, from anyone including yourself (yet you still ask for it - maybe you should re-read the thread). Which feels quite telling to me. If you are referring to F1Technical as the other forum, then... well, i'm not saying anything more cause i saw how that has ended. Exactly the same as here so far, i just hope it doesn't actually end the same way.

I would be more than happy to put forward something but I have great difficulty with numbers (no, it's not laziness before anyone throws that at me again) so that is why I appreciate what mnmracer has produced and am annoyed to see it being torn up so much. I could easily find something on-line and copy it but I doubt I would be able to explain and defend it enough to do it justice so I prefer to enjoy and hopefully learn from what someone else has produced.

As for the site, I am referring to a different one altogether. I've had a look at how this went over there and, yeah it's less than ideal to say the least.

[What's Burning?]

More than one F1 related forum... how do you people do it?

[LRW]

More than one F1 related forum... how do you people do it?

And they keep saying how great the other Forums are....... but never seem to leave this place. Maybe this place is the Hotel California of the F1 Forum World....?