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[McLaren Fan]

And Jordan and Minardi, of course.

Yeah, totally agree. Two great teams who gave the sport a lot. Jordan should have been given the nod over ProDrive. Full stop. Of course, the FIA and Ecclestone thought they knew better and people would ignore the illegalities in the rules and the breach of the Concorde Agreement.

The same cannot be said for Toyota, though.

Totally agree, again. They're still living in Japan circa 1930 where everybody must obey the emperor, i.e. Toyota are based on some totalitarian top-down regime.

Also, I think that over time a few other teams will become as iconic as those three you mentioned. BMW Sauber, if they start winning, will probably reach that stage provided they can stay in the sport for another decade and win a championship or two. I'd be pretty saddened if BMW or Red Bull left the sport, come to think of it. They've already made a fair impact in their short time in Formula 1, and I think they've definitely earned their place.

I agree, again, but not as far as I would with you on the previous two points. I've a lot of time for BMW and Red Bull, but I don't think they have the essence of an iconic marque. They're just big companies with faceless staff, then think of Enzo Ferrari, Bruce McLaren, Colin Chapman, Frank Williams etc: legends of motor racing.

[Denthúl]

Definitely true, and I don't think any of those four should (or would) ever be forgotten. Like I said somewhere earlier today, Frank Williams gets a lot of respect from me for what he and his team have achieved. In their thirty years in the sport, Williams have achieved almost as many victories as McLaren, and aren't too far behind Ferrari. Both of those teams have been in the sport for longer. So I think they've definitely proven themselves to be an awesome team that will go on winning for a long time.

I guess you're right about BMW and Red Bull, but I think they'll be around for quite a while now. They're both looking quite strong at the moment. They might make twenty years, like Minardi, or just under fifteen, like Jordan. But I'm sure they'll have some good times along the way.

[al4x]

as i mentioned in a previous thread, toyota are a nothing team for me, i neither want them to win or loose, i just dont really care!

i often forget who drives for them!

pretty much all the other teams i feel something for, wether it bad ie ferrari/mc or good renault! (bmw a bit)

you cant feel sorry for them because they have so much money, unlike the other smaller teams, they just sit at the back talking about performance gains thinking that blabbing powers an f1 car to pole!

i expect them to improve but dont want them too really! and i dont remember much tv coverage time of them

just my input